Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

With the noisy lifter a thing of the past, new fuel pump, repaired TL, new brakes, rebuilt power steering and a few other aggravations repaired it was time to take the Packard out for a ride. Florida's weather at 80 degrees and low humidity encouraged the mood. I was even asking questions about the interior (a few of you answered, others saw "THIS" coming). The engine started smoothly (always the first time) but the brakes were a little jumpy, put on a few miles and they should settle down. Needing gas as the accuracy of the gauge is still an unknown I pulled into the station and cautiously pumped in five gallons of high test. The Packard again smoothly started and rolled through the shopping center, I stopped for a little old lady in the crosswalk and the engine just slowly quit. I cranked it a few times receiving a few well deserved looks, still no start, just drawing down the battery. I changed the battery, blew out the fuel filter and took off the air cleaner, checked ignition and coil and she finally started but as rough as an eight hundred dollar one owner, the noisy lifter was back the TL stopped working and I was pushing the brake pedal to the floor. Damn I love old cars.

What a depressing story. When you blew out the filter, was anything in it and is it before or after the pump? The fact it slowly quit and you were able to start up after a few makes me want to think fuel. Three areas have been issues for others. Debris in tank floating around plugging the outlet, and drifting away when suction stopped. The hose between steel line on frame to pump inlet old and possibly collapsing internally from suction or rust in tank has clogged the inlet screen in new fuel pump. Would rule those out. As to the T-L, the brake switch and fuses would be first things I'd check. If pedal went to floor, not good so that would sure rate ahead of new threads in my book.

The T/L not working and the brakes going to the floor says stoplight switch to me.

The filter is after the pump and it was clean, should it be before the pump? Your brake switch theory is intriguing. The TL was working great the gearbox was completely rebuilt by hand, new motor, cleaned and repaired the switches. The seven second relay was dead on, you could hop on the back fender and seven seconds later up she went. When it "failed" you could manually raise and lower it by jumping the wires and we figured it was the on off switch by the steering column. I was on my way to pick up a new switch when it stalled. Why the sudden rough engine, remember I just added high octane gas, should I use the lead additive? After the new brake cylinders were installed they were very touchy, after a mile or so you needed to press the brakes hard to stop all five thousand pounds.

The filter never was before the pump originally, so I wouldn't worry about that. As for the brakes, it sounds to me like the master cylinder is failing, which is a notorious condition for Treadle Vac master cylinder. I'd HIGHLY recommend replacing it with a more modern booster and dual reservoir master cylinder before you drive it again. Others will disagree, but the Bendix Treadle Vac setup is a dangerous piece of equipment and should be discarded or left for museum pieces. Check the fluid in the master cylinder reservoir, I'd bet it's mostly gone, sucked up inside the booster portion.

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Speaking of fluid, are you using Silicon brake fluid?

The filter is normally after the pump but unless you had the tank cleaned, it is very possible old rust and sediment is inside and clogged the filter screen in pump.

The 3 terminal brake switch supplies the voltage which goes to the TL on-off switch and then on to supply the control box via the light green wire. It is notorious for failing with modern and especially silicone brake fluid.

The pedal to the floor is not good. Did you have the treadle vac gone through? I'd be very concerned about that and suggest you do have it done.

Don't have an answer for the rough engine unless the fuel was not there and it starved--or something happened to the vacuum line for brakes and too much air messed things up.

Lead additive should not be the issue at this point.

EDIT: Eric makes a good point on brake fluid. Was there any white or blue exhaust like something was being burned as you drove or when this happened. If the reservoir is full, then there is the rubber compensator valve which is the only thing that keeps fluid in master cylinder under pressure when brakes applied. If it's bad or spring weak, fluid will leak past and no pedal-- either gradually or suddenly.

Take the fuel pump off and remove the bottom cover which is held on by one bolt. Check the valves and screen and bowl for sediment. You can blow this crud out with gentle air pressure - not 100 lbs. Check the hose from the steel line to the pump. If it is an original, it is probably disintegating. Several Packard regions carry this hose for about $20.00.
If the treadle-vac has not been rebuilt, have it done before you drive it again. Ed Strain in Florida does a good reliable job.

Morgan. Refresh my memmory. What did u do initialy to alleviate the lifter noise???? What packard do u have???


On the brakes:
Does the pedal go all the way to the floor unconditionaly or only maybe 20% of the time????? When it goes to the floor is there ANY braking effect at all or none at all????

Any known service history on the master cylinder or power unit????

Make sure the gas cap is vented. JUDICously run without gas cap if needed to experiment.

I know in the past people have referenced the possibility of the master cylinder/booster failing and brake fluid being sucked into the intake via the vacuum line. Could that explain both the pedal to the floor, and the rough engine?

Just throwing it out there.