Packard Forum Index » Project Blogs

Tuesday 15th May 2012

Just a couple of hours at the workshop this afternoon following a visit by my daughter and granddaughter #2. Not much to report with Wade cleaning up the clutch fork for painting. It needs to be mounted on the bellhousing before the clutch is mounted to the flywheel. Wade had also cleaned up an old flatiron used as a door stop at home so they both received a coat of POR-15. This morning Noel had called in and, although I missed him, his email missive update reported "...Everything looking good!!..." Wade was also able to advise Noel the fuel pump kit he'd provided was the wrong one, it was for a double action pump and Wade now will order the correct kit. Noel is going to source the gaskets required from his US contacts so once they arrive assembly can begin in earnest. In the meantime little things are being attended to with Wade finding the right bolt and washers in his spares for the distributor hold down. So far I think the miscellaneous nuts and bolts provided by Noel have provided just that, miscellaneous nuts and bolts! Oh yes, and a '41 parking light lens, which Noel advised wasn't his and besides it has a chip in it! Because there's not a spigot shaft to align the clutch plate when assembling it and the pressure plate to the flywheel Wade had spent part of the morning looking for an alternative without success. So, after I'd applied the POR-15 to the fork and flatiron, I started rummaging through sockets, bushes, bolts in fact anything that would remotely look promising will very little result. Until I looked at the various stud removers and found one that was almost the right diameter for the pilot bearing. Then found another socket that was just a little bit smaller than the inside diameter of the clutch plate splines. Married these together with a short socket extension, a king pin bush from Big Red and 3 washers to fill the gap. Looks promising! Might have to pack the sockets slightly with electrical tape but will know more tomorrow when it's put into practice. While I was doing that, Wade was cleaning up the pivot for the clutch fork, quite a nice piece with needle rollers, now all cleaned and greased and ready for re-fitment.

Attach file:

---

  (28.13 KB)


  (35.12 KB)


  (28.41 KB)


  (44.83 KB)


  (35.92 KB)


  (36.54 KB)

Mal,

I congratulate you on your innovative pilot shaft. Great idea!

(o[]o)

Wednesday 16th May 2012

First task this morning was mounting the "pivot joint" to the 356 clutch fork. This "pivot joint" has a roller bearing in the pivot housing and is retained in the fork by a bolt through the arm of the fork. Also has an ingenious pair of retaining plates at each side of the bearing which lock into the arm. Doesn't look easy to put it together but it came apart so with a bit of thought, on Wade's part, the retaining plated were clipped into the fork, splayed out and the roller bearing and it's collars slipped right in. Then rotate the whole assembly, align the bolt hole, insert the bolt and do it up. Then fastened the arm into the bellhousing. Next was installing a new leather boot onto the arm. Hardest part of that was getting the spring wire clip through the hem of the boot. Then that was tripled up because the spring clip was upside down, meant taking it back out and reinserting it the right way around, hence tripling up! Embarrassment behind us, moved onto the clutch and pressure plate. But first needed to get our little DIY dummy spigot to fit a little better. One wrap of tape on the pilot bearing socket and about three wraps of tape on the clutch spigot socket and we now had a nice snug DIY dummy spigot. But the bl**dy clutch and pressure plate won't fit!!!! They do "fit", but there just isn't enough room to push the assembly in past the clutch fork! Didn't miss by much but by just enough. Tried taking the clutch fork off the bellhousing and yes the clutch and pressure plate then do fit but not the clutch fork! Lots of attempts, lots of headscratching, lots of surmising but in the end lots of nothing. Wade rang a mate but he couldn't help so the problem was put back to the owner, Noel. Among things asked of Noel were, is this a different pressure plate than the original, is it a different bellhousing, is it a different clutch fork? My bald patch isn't getting any better for all the headscratching so matters were left with Noel in an attempt to gain some answers or insights. For that matter anyone out there have experience with installing a 356 bellhousing, clutch plate and pressure plate and clutch fork? Are there any tricks or tips to be aware of?

Putting aside the clutch, turned to the other end of the engine and set about getting the timing gears and chain back on the engine. First the backing plate for the timing case was installed after cleaning up some of the miscellaneous bolts and finding gaskets for this in the other stuff Noel had brought over. Then while I turned the crankshaft by hand by means of the flywheel, it turned fairly readily like that, Wade ensured the "0" timing marks on the gears were properly aligned. The timing chain was then slid on and the alignment of marks and centres checked, and checked OK. With the camshaft and valve gear now engaged the effort required to turn the flywheel increased but still doable by hand. Next a gasket for the timing case cover. None found "in stock" and the remnant of gasket material Wade had on the shelf wasn't big enough so Wade procured 2 metres of sheet gasket material from Repco. Should be enough to service a few more Packards at least. On Wade's return I knocked up a MBM Gasket and on went the timing case as well as a new crankshaft front oil seal, Wade had found one of those in Noel's stuff. Then on with the harmonic balancer and retaining nut.

That done, then turned to the valves. By now I was able to turn the engine over by civilised means, a socket on the crankshaft nut. Doing this revealed that 7 of the 8 exhaust valves were sticking, inlets appear to be OK. Then set about removing all the exhaust valves. But, they are very stuck, only managing to get #2 out, after giving up on #1 and leaving it to soak overnight in penetrant. Also cleaned up some minor parts along the way as well as various fasteners. Noel is coming over at some stage to slap some more of his Bill Hirsch Packard engine paint on things like the waterpump so these needed to be done before he arrives.

Attach file:

---

  (26.35 KB)


  (22.24 KB)


  (22.34 KB)


  (37.06 KB)


  (22.64 KB)


  (35.50 KB)


  (37.97 KB)


  (42.62 KB)


  (16.63 KB)


  (29.06 KB)


  (30.18 KB)


  (43.28 KB)


  (30.89 KB)


  (20.02 KB)

Mal,

clipper47 here talked about the difficulties he encountered installing a new clutch in his 47 Clipper with the 356 engine. Maybe Dave will pick up on this or you may want to PM him for how he solved the release fork - clutch cover interface problem.

(o[]o)

Thursday 17th May 2012

Today was spent on the valves. First all were removed, inlets as well as the exhausts, even though the inlets seemed to be functioning OK. A fair number of the exhaust valves resisted easy removal necessitating inserting "spacers" gradually increasing in size and rotating the crank to force the valve another 1/4" or so higher each time. Valves were lifted until the bottom of the stem was flush with the bottom of the valve guide. Then a number of techniques were employed, penetrant, rotation while lifting, returning the valve down the guide, up and down movement, brute force or a combination of one or more of these. Result, all valves were finally released from the 356's grip upon them. Just as well all the valves came out because some of the inlets needed attention too. Then, while I cleaned up the heads of all the valves, Wade removed and cleaned up each of the lifters. Wade also went round to Brookers Brakes and was able to borrow a reamer to clean out the valve guides. Reaming done, lapping in the valves was next. But, starting at #1 exhaust, soon realised it needed more than a manual valve grind. So again off went Wade to Brookers. Returned the reamer but had taken all the valves with him. Brookers reground the valve faces while he waited and even lent him a couple of valve seat re-facing cutters to recut the faces for both the inlets, 30 degrees, and exhausts, 45 degrees. As I said earlier it was just as well all the valves came out, some requiring much more surgery than others before all the pits and perfections were removed. Then onto lapping in the valves. Wade had 3 old, very old, containers of lapping paste. One of which had accompanied him to Sydney about 50 years ago and only had a skerrick of paste left in it, as you'd expect. Of the other two, one was so dried out it was binned straight away while the other provided enough dried paste which when well mixed with oil provided a reasonable paste for the lapping exercise. Almost through the lapping when Noel arrived, after calling earlier, and dropped in another clutch fork. The fork he delivered is the same or similar to a 120 fork and is thinner so stands some chance of fitting. But that'll be on Mondays to do list along with re-installing the valves, because there's no work tomorrow. The funeral of a friend closing the workshop for all the guys there. But I'll miss out on Monday because of another Packard happening. I'll be with Peter Packard, his wife Ann and Noel for the pickup of the '38 Barrymore Twelve from Belmont, north of Sydney. A more than fair compensation, I'd say, for missing a day at the workshop!

Quote:John,

Thanks for the tip but a solution might be at hand as noted above. If not, I'll use your suggestion as backup.

Attach file:

---

  (24.95 KB)


  (36.42 KB)


  (34.19 KB)


  (27.69 KB)


  (20.47 KB)


  (17.22 KB)


  (26.01 KB)


  (13.96 KB)


  (22.89 KB)

Mal, I always very much enjoy reading your posts - given how long some are I hope you touch-type and arent' a 2-finger typist.

For the amount of valve work that Wade does, I'd think he'd already own or be on the lookout for a power valve seat grinder kit. The one pictured below I picked up maybe 30 years back for something like $25; I still see them occasionally at auto flea markets. I did have to invest in some new stones a while back but I've probably done 30 or more valve grinds with this kit, mostly Packards. I do pay a machine shop to reface the valves and when both surfaces are so machined, I follow the advice of some old time references and don't hand-lap though I do check the contact with some radial soft pencil lines across the faces, or occasionally I use Prussian Blue.

To me the worst part of a thorough valve job is changing exhaust guides, especially #8 where the curvature of the cowl on most models inhibits a good swing of the hammer.

I also noticed Wade's numbered cardboard holder to retain the valves in order. A good rainy day or winter project is to make a little rack like the one below, not that it works any better.

Attach file:

---

  (104.70 KB)


  (160.94 KB)

Quote:Dave,

Not even 2 fingers! Basically one finger, middle right, with a little assistance from the left forefinger for left sided keys like shift, caps lock and tab! Even then I get it wrong, don't know how many posts I've lost because of hitting the wrong key! Plus I'm sure the keyboard letters move around. How is it possible that I make the many spelling mistakes found when proof reading?

Regarding the valve grinding gear, I'm sure Wade would snap one up if he found one. It was only last year he finally came across a king pin reaming set and bought that. I like your valve holding rack, a lot sturdier than floppy pieces of cardboard. The other ready-to-hand valve holder that Wade usually uses is the used head gasket, off the engine being worked on, which has enough head stud and water passage holes for that purpose. But, in this instance, the 356 engine came without a head gasket hence a MBM cardboard setup.

Monday 21st May 2012

Not Wade's Workshop today but pickup of Peter Packard's '38 Packard Twelve. Late yesterday Peter and Ann drove to Sydney, from Canberra, and stayed overnight with Noel. Then this morning I met these three at the habitual rendezvous for Packards heading north out of Sydney, Macca's at Thornleigh. Peter and Ann were in a van complete with tools, just in case. But the van's main purpose was to provide transportation for a large crate containing parts for Peter from the US, notably an R6 Trans and OD and a '37 Super Eight crankshaft, which accompanied the Twelve. From Thornleigh we proceeded to Belmont and met John of Performance Imports who had arranged the shipping, import and clearance of the Twelve into Australia from California. John had imported my Coupe for me back in 2007, so I was returning to familiar territory.

And there it was, sitting in the driveway, in front of John's house with engine running, the Twelve Limousine. Looked magnificent in the sunlight. A very original car, a previous owner being Lionel Barrymore who had it converted to accept a custom wheel chair in lieu of part of the rear seat. See this old thread, Post #4 for a link which references this Lionel Barrymore Packard. Conversion was carried out by Bohman & Schwartz at a cost of over $1800 before WW2. Has been restored with all mechanical components either serviced, replaced or rebuilt, including a full engine rebuild and ready to drive. That suited Peter perfectly because it was his intention to drive the Twelve home to Canberra. This is a distance of about 250 miles and, according to the on-line source I checked, should take about 4 & 1/2 hours for the trip. But before Peter could drive it home, first it needed a safety and mechanical check and certificate. To be followed by a permit from the RMS allowing him to move the Packard from Belmont to Canberra.

Arrived at Ansons Tyre and Auto centre with Noel accompanying Peter in the Twelve while Ann and I followed in our vehicles. Ansons performed the safety and mechanical check and issued the certificate. But not without a minor drama! No, nothing to do with the safety and mechanical check. The Twelve wouldn't start again, after stopping outside, so it could moved inside! But, because Ansons has a sloping driveway running past it, a clutch start cured that problem. It then restarted after being in the building but was cranking over rather slowly. Now fortunately, one of the reasons Noel had made the trip, besides being keen to see the Twelve, was to pick up a shipment of Optima batteries he had imported for PACA members. So 2 of the batteries were loaded into the Twelves boot(trunk), just in case, they might be needed on the next stage of going to the RMS Motor Registry office for the trip permit. At the Registry office the RMS were keen to only issue a 4 hour permit. But Peter was insistent, calling in the manager explaining the age and limitations of the Twelve and that it couldn't be equated to a modern vehicle for trip time purposes, and was able to obtain a 2 day permit. Then, as I was typing this paragraph, I received a call from Noel who had heard from Peter who was about 1/2 an hour away from Canberra and it's now about 6 hours since starting the trip back to Canberra. If you did do that trip in the 4 hour time frame originally offered I'm sure you would be over the speed limit all the way!

After the RMS office, and a bite of lunch, Peter took the opportunity to change out the battery in the Twelve for one of Noel's Optimas because of his concerns as to the health of the battery. Right away it looked a real good move with the Twelve starting right away a couple of times when it was put to the test. Don't worry Lee(Larry51) it wasn't your Optima! Back onto the highway into a service station and filled the Twelve up with 91 Unleaded(no Ethanol). With the gauge indicating about 1/3 full it took about 63 litres, which with some mental gymnastics, assuming the gauge was right, gave me a figure in the vicinity of 96 litres for a full tank. However just checked the 1938 Super 8 and Twelve Owners Manual here on PackardInfo which shows a tank size of 30 gallons or about 120 litres for the Twelve! So either I didn't fill it when I thought I did or the fuel gauge isn't accurate. There you are Peter, I've found a job for you already on the Twelve!

Link to pic's from today.

Getting away from today, I'll backtrack a little to yesterday. Two things. One, I attended a reunion of the Road Knights Hot Rod Club. Two, received an email from BillB. The Road Knights Hot Rod Club? Yes, part of my misspent youth! Turned out Jan, the wife of one member, is a sister of Noel's friend LesF! Was able to tell her I knew Les and had also met her Dad, Neville. Interesting snippet was that her husband always wanted Neville to "steel" his '33 Ford Coupe, because the wood had deteriorated, but Neville just wouldn't do it! And Bill? Here's an excerpt from his email "...Beautiful day up here today took the car to" Macleans Bridge at Lakeside" sponsored by Triumph Club & Shannons. Mainly British cars there but one Packard stood out amongst the Americans. Guy came over to me and gave me his card told me he had taken lots of photo's of my car at the Redlands Australia Day show and that one shot in particular, the mascot, had been downloaded by hundreds around the world. Go to: www.deejay51.com to see some good shots of the car..." So, you too can now view Bill's '37 Convertible Coupe and download pictures!

Attach file:

---

  (54.10 KB)


  (52.00 KB)


  (52.49 KB)


  (44.75 KB)


  (43.33 KB)


  (43.28 KB)


  (28.02 KB)


  (27.05 KB)


  (38.88 KB)


  (26.99 KB)

Hi all, especially Mal and Noel. Well, after a long and stressful day, made more pleasant with Mal and Noel riding shotgun, we got the 38 Twelve back to Canberra around 8pm, well and truly dark after a 6 hr drive (2 hrs in the dark). The 35/35 Watt headlights do not "cut the mustard" at 60 mph on narrow, twisty, unlit roads, with kangaroos just waiting to play the "chicken" game. In/around Canberra, approximately every third vehicle accident involves a kangaroo. I know that it is very non PC (politically correct), but they are similar to pedestrians and vary in mass from 70 to 300 lbs and can inflict an enormous amount of damage to vehicles, especially to motorcyclists. I have always wanted a Twelve with some provenance and I hope that I now have one. I am hoping to find some "evidence" to prove this vehicle link to Lionel Barrymore and would appreciate it if anyone who has such info could contact me. Meanwhile, I have quite a few items to adjust for the local conditions and Ann and I hope to enjoy the Twelve for many years. We now have the 16th Series almost covered, with examples of a 1600, 1601D, 1603, 1605 and 1608. P. S. I got used to the LHD steering very quickly after about 400 metres when I clipped a gutter. Those 7.50 X 16 Cokers are too d@+#n expensive to scrape! Best regards Peter Toet

Tuesday 22nd May 2012

Yesterday, while yours truely had been away with the Twelve, Wade had been painting parts for the 356 as well as installing the valves, springs, retainers and keepers as well as putting on the tappet covers. He'd also started on the distributor which is what I found him at this morning. Re-assembly of the distributor internal centrifugal weights interspersed with more cleaning of the plate and it's components before it too was re-installed. The re-installation included a set of points of mine which happened to fit, bought off eBay a few years ago. Didn't include the new rotor you gave me yesterday Noel, it was the wrong one, so instead will use the rotor I supplied last week. And Noel, Wade says if you want to change the colour of the vacuum advance that's fine by him, so bring your paintbrush. Although, not "correct", I like the effect the colour gives. I did say I went to a Hot Rod club reunion on Sunday, must still be some of that running through the veins!

Then it was onto having another go at installing the clutch. Relatively easy this time round probably because the replacement clutch fork supplied by Noel last week fitted. The MBM dummy spigot shaft also worked well. The only drawback was it's fondness for falling apart because of it's construction, but that was a minor and not terribly inconvenient hiccup to bear for the utility it provided. Also scrounged up some short bolts from the junk box, the two long ones came with the 356 stuff, and bolted the bottom bellhousing cover on. Although it will have to come off later when the trans is bolted on and the throw-out bearing and spring need to be installed. Also started rounding up enough sump bolts but that turned into a futile exercise. So Noel, looks like you'll have an errand to run to Lee Bros for 2 dozen bolts as well as one long oil pump bolt. Although most oil pump bolts were with the 356 parts there was one short.

Before installing the clutch Wade wanted to reinforce the top of the mobile engine assembly table. To do this outside we went where the business next door has a whole row of stuff along one wall which is rubbish and we were told we could use anything we want. Good, found something with a steel frame perfect for what we wanted. But, when almost back to the workshop, we get pulled up by one of the guys from next door. We can have anything from there BUT not that one thing! Turns out it belongs to some machinery they are trying to sell so it had to go back. Instead found another piece which worked out well. At least they didn't call the law!

While I cleaned up Big Reds valves, Wade turned to cleaning and inspecting the 356's oil pump. Looks excellent but won't be re-assembled until the proper gasket and the necessary bolt are obtained. And Noel, mentioned to Wade about the fuel pump kit so he'll take up on the running for that. Also some clean up of the work area because, with Big Reds engine lying around in pieces, bench space was at a premium. Managed to clear about two half bench tops, but wonder how long that'll last? Then cleaned up Big Reds sump and a few other parts. In addition to taking Big Reds flywheel, clutch, balancer, etc to Tamworth for balancing after the crankshaft is ground Wade will be taking the sump(for cleaning). Apparently they have a real good aluminium parts cleaning process. And new rods have been ordered from the US, but more about those later as there's a 8 week lead time on them.

Attach file:

---

  (21.45 KB)


  (19.64 KB)


  (25.64 KB)


  (21.89 KB)


  (30.81 KB)


  (28.00 KB)


  (24.05 KB)


  (29.49 KB)


  (40.02 KB)


  (45.25 KB)


  (43.32 KB)


  (43.95 KB)