Re: HA's 52 200 Grey Ghost
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Home away from home
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I tried to start the engine tonight after I got home from fixing broken airplanes out west all day. I figured maybe I was on a roll as things had gone well all day, obviously I was a genius mechanic and could do no wrong.
Nope. I hooked up a fuel line from a gas can to my fuel pump and that works great, so I did that rebuild correctly anyway. But I couldn't get the engine to catch - it will try very hard to fire but won't catch and run. Seems like I'm getting enough fuel to the carb, so I suspected ignition and went through the points and timing. Second-guessed myself on the distributor and decided that the rotor isn't quite pointing at the #1 tower on the cap, so I spun the distributor 180 degrees, moved all the plug wires to new spots on the cap, and same result. The engine tries but won't quite catch and run. What simple thing am I missing?
Posted on: 2014/7/23 22:20
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1952 Model 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
HA's 52 Grey Ghost "The problem with quotes on the internet is you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln |
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Re: HA's 52 200 Grey Ghost
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Forum Ambassador
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If for no other reason than to eliminate it as a cause, why not go back to the most basic of basics on the distributor?
Remove the #1 plug. Rotate the engine in the proper direction until you feel compression building in #1 cylinder via you finger over the spark plug hole. Stop the rotation at the timing mark or within a few degrees. Your distributor rotor should now be under #1 spark plug wire. If it's 180 degrees out, remove the distributor and remount 180 degrees reversed. For any other situation, put #1 wire over the rotor and insert the balance of the wires in the correct firing order and rotation. This done, there can be absolutely no question about the distributor position or wire position.
Posted on: 2014/7/24 10:11
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Re: HA's 52 200 Grey Ghost
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Home away from home
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James, I did reuse the original timing chain and gears as there didn't seem to be any sag or appreciable wear on the gear teeth and chain.
O_D, I did verify the #1 compression position with my thumb and the timing marks. I had the wires on the cap as the originals had been (#1 lower left looking down at the cap) and verified the firing order, but it seemed like when the points were just opening (using my multimeter) the rotor wasn't pointing exactly at the #1 position, just a bit ahead. I played with turning the distro to get it better aligned but that didn't seem to make a difference in my results. So, I tried flipping it 180 deg and see if the rotor is more directly aligned with a different tower (upper right), and moved all the wires to match. Same thing. Points are set to .016" gap per spec, new plugs are gapped to .023-.025".
Posted on: 2014/7/24 16:31
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1952 Model 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
HA's 52 Grey Ghost "The problem with quotes on the internet is you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln |
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Re: HA's 52 200 Grey Ghost
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Home away from home
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You probably have this correct, but I messed it up one time, so I'll mention it. Distributor rotation is counter clockwise. Oh, now I see you wrote it tries, but won't quite catch and run...Bad ignition cap? Check resitance of The plug wires? Perhaps you have a bad wire or two that is enough to keep the engine from starting.
Posted on: 2014/7/24 23:18
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1953 Clipper Delux Club Sedan, 1953 Caribbean, 1969 912, 1990 Miata
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Re: HA's 52 200 Grey Ghost
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Forum Ambassador
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Haven't read the entire blog but have you checked and how is the compression. Stuck valves on long sitting engines have happened to others and if yours are acting up that could be the problem.
Posted on: 2014/7/24 23:24
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Howard
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Re: HA's 52 200 Grey Ghost
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Home away from home
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Here is another thought. We had a Packard with a running issue after the customer replace the oil pump. Did you happen to have the oil pump at a point during your rebuild?
<a href="http://s671.photobucket.com/user/JamesRFrom/media/Packard%20400/PACKARD.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv72/JamesRFrom/Packard%20400/PACKARD.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo PACKARD.jpg"/></a>
Posted on: 2014/7/25 9:29
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Re: HA's 52 200 Grey Ghost
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Home away from home
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Hey, I missed that somehow in the manual. I was actually thinking about if I'd messed up something there last night. Yup, I had everything off to replace gaskets since it leaked so bad. That looks like it could be my problem, since I can't seem to get the rotor pointing right at a tower when the points open. Bet I didn't get it back exactly where I took it off.
I'm out of town for a wedding but now I know what I'm checking into first thing when I get home tomorrow.
Posted on: 2014/7/25 15:29
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1952 Model 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
HA's 52 Grey Ghost "The problem with quotes on the internet is you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln |
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Re: HA's 52 200 Grey Ghost
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Home away from home
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Basically, the number 1 terminal on the distributor can be any one of the terminals. It is preferred to have the number 1 terminal were Packard intended, but it does not necessarily have to be there. The Packard procedure to 'time' the oil pump is to have the number 1 terminal in the original position. Any terminal on the distributor can be the one for number 1 so long as the firing order is followed in the correct rotation. It is important to have the distributor housing positioned so the points are just starting to open with the rotor pointed at the number 1 terminal and the timing marks on the damper and pointer aligned to TDC. A few degrees either way can make a big difference, but usually an engine will start and run with timing retarded or advanced beyond normal.
If this does not work, then you may have misaligned the crankshaft and camshaft when reassemblying the engine. I hope this helps. (o{}o)
Posted on: 2014/7/25 21:58
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We move toward
And make happen What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer) |
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Re: HA's 52 200 Grey Ghost
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Home away from home
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Your problem can not be caused by the position of the oil pump as the relationship between the points and the rotor is all within the distributor,
That said, the normal factory position for the distributor in that engine is with the seam of the vacuum chamber vertical and the rotor at 7 o'clock with the engine at 6 degrees btdc on #1. The overall position of the distributor will be different if you don't choose the right tooth when engaging the oil pump to the cam, but the points and rotor will stay in registration. I like to get them into the standard position even if I have to pull the pump out a couple of times to turn it a tooth as it saves confusion later. That achieved, it is just a matter of turning the distributor clockwise til the points only just open. If I use the beep function on my meter, I often don't even have to reset the timing later. If nothing is funky in the dist, the rotor will be at seven o'clock and pretty much right under a tower. Then the rest of the wires go in order ccw around the cap.
Posted on: 2014/7/25 22:09
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