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I never agree with Peter very often but in this case I do.

I think that the factory would have done what the customer wanted with in reason to make a sale of the Senior Packard's during the 30's, the same could be said for the Packard dealers trying to make the sale.

The problem I find with this hobby today there are a lot of people out there claiming to be so called experts and blow their horn very loudly. However when the rubber hits the road they turn out not to know too much.

Several years I ago I was invited to CCCA meet in Florida. Before the meeting my host said that 90% of the people at the event wouldn't know what they were talking about when
it came to classics. How true my host was.

A fellow I know restored a Senior Packard in the early to mid 90's and he told me he stopped keeping track of what he spent on the restoration when figures reached $ 250,000. So I guess that when some person puts out a figure of $ 750,000 that doesn't shock me


John F. Shireman

The real question is was the $750k worth it (if that is even the real amount)? IMHO I say no. You could have saved two cars and had spectacular vehicles for that price. When you get tired of it and go to sell it, no one will pay that price for it. If the car was an original, extremely low mileage car, found unmolested in that condition, that would be different because of it's historical value as a survivor. It always makes me wonder when someone brags about how much money they spent restoring a car. Giving someone a bunch of money do to work for you doesn't prove anything. How much more rewarding would that restoration have been if the owner got in there and got his hands dirty? How many other restoraation shops could have done that work for a lot less?

I wouldn't take any swipes at the guy for pursuing a lifelong dream. I don't know Ed personally but have read about his cars in PI magazine and other publications. He appears to be a regular, nice guy with a passion for Packards (like we all are here). It's his money and his car. More power to him.

I just hope I have enough coin to pay admission to see it at Meadowbrook or someplace.

Not know what the other cars that were competing against it, it could have been the best of show even with this flaw. However I think the incorrect dash was more major than the judges thought. I agree that things like piping sizes are minor things.

On the comment of it could had been...I agree some take it too far especially when you see the original car he started from has the correct dash.

I think we all wish we had $750K to spend on a restoration. I think some of us would had spend it definitely, but it's not our money. Again we know plenty of people with more more in a car than it's worth. This is just on a larger scale. I also have no issue with some one hiring a professional restorer and not getting their hands dirty.

To me part of the problem with some persons is that they know how much money it takes to play and compete with the big boys in this hobby. However they sit on the other side of the fence because they lack the cash to do so. They stand there and look on in envy and nit pick.


John F. Shireman

John,

There is some envy when others see people spending $$$$ on restorations. In fact some have called for shows that keep the cars that were professionally restored away from those that were done in a garage. Sort of the driver vs. trailer queen arguments you hear.

However I don't think we are nit picking the dash. What if the guy liked no divider in the front windshield of the same 38 and restores the car that way? Is that correct? This woodgraining is an obvious major flaw. The PI judging manual indicates that proper woodgraining for the dash is critical. They use the word critical so how can only a few points be deducted when it's not even close to being correct? The car is a from I'm told a stunning beautiful restoration and we're not denying that. We are questioning the judging criteria used for this car in a "judged" show. again maybe there was even a car close to this car as the runner up had a lot more incorrect flaws.

I know that Fred Mauch often jokes about carrying a yellow flag when judging so he can throw it when he comes across an "over-restored" car. Things like perfectly powder coated frames, and other things like that which were never how they left the factory would get a point deduction.

I wouldn't deduct for over restoration as I think that is too hard to quantify, but I would deduct for obvious things like chromed items that should have been painted. Remeber it's all in fun however I heard today through the grapevine that a runner up was quite upset at losing and took his case to someone in the PI org. That is too serious for me.

G'day all, I would just like to say that anyone who spends money on a Packard, for restoration for concours or to get it back on the road is my amigo, friend, whatever. It's the thought that counts. Best Regards Peter Toet

"INCORRECT DASH"

You wanna be 'picky" about the "incorrect dash"?

O.K..let me show you "picky". The dash was CORRECT in EVERY respect, down to the beautifully done lettering inside the VERY complex dash instrument faces.

YOU used the term "incorrect dash" in a non-authentic manner! Shame on you for exposing yourself to correction by "picky" guys like me! You need to get your use of language properly restored by someone who knows authenticity...!

Seriously, again, the dash was QUITE correct EXCEPT that the paint on the sheet metal surface was done in the traditional Packard style - not the very subtle silver/aluminum unique in 1938 "seniors". (funny side-note. I THINK, but cannot prove, that silver paint on the '38 Seniors, was left over from the '36 "120" dash....!)

For those of you who have not met Ed - be assured he is a VERY nice, unassuming, down-to-earth guy. He is the kind of guy, like me, who knows he will NEVER get tired of the car. Thus, as he and I both agree, our Twelves are WORTHLESS. Because we arent going to sell them. Whatever money we throw at them is down the toilet.

Ed has a dollar or two more in his Twelve than I have in mine. Like Ed, I did odd jobs to get thru college. Worked as a truck mechanic at night. I was luckier than Ed, in that I COULD afford, in 1955, to buy a half-way decent Twelve. It is still worthless to me from a monetary standpoint.

Guys - some of us simply dont CARE what it costs to get our Packards to the point where they are what we want. If I had Ed's money, I'd do the same thing he did - have em fix my Twelve so it was like it came from the factory. EXCEPT for the dash. I LIKE that wood-graining.

So - guys, soon as we discover oil on my property, tell Joseph to clean out a place in his shop for mine. And make sure he can find that guy who did the wood-graining!

And be SURE if I bother to have my car judged, I will expect they dont go taking points off for my dash looking like the way it COULD have come from 1580 E. Grand Blvd. Oh yeah, when Joseph does mine, he WILL be directed to 1) use the correct diameter fender "welt" 2) put the rubber bumpers that serve as "hood anti ratlers" on the OUTside of the fender lip, and 3) grind off the ends of the running board rubber. THAT is where he lost points. NOT because of the dash paint ! Be ASSURED his car got judged fairly.