Packard Forum Index » Project Blogs

Hi Mal,

I am shocked the washers came un-swaged from the roller pins. These normally require grinding the swaging away and then pressing the pin out of the washer. The rollers and pins are available from Egge Machine. I replaced all of mine, the only trouble was the little thrust washers were two wide. I hade to surface grind and fit each one. A big pain in the $!#.

The other surprising thing for me is that every one of these rocker assemblies (the set on my car, spare set I have, and all at swap meets and in friends private stash) I have ever encountered have been totally worn out. They typically seem to wear the tiny internal bushings out, as well as gull the pins pretty bad.

What has Wades experience been with this style Packard rocker assembly?

Jim

Thursday 14th May 2009

Arrived at the workshop to find Wade already there with his goodies. Rebuilt shocks from Tony "Shocks", re-plated '34 grill and other parts by All Metal Bumpers and 4 metres of cowl beading from David at Antique Tyre Supplies. Had a look at a few of the chrome pieces and they look good, unfortunately the only pic I took didn't turn out too well.

And last night/early this morning(Daytime in US) Wade had called Egge Machine about the availability of the roller cam followers and parts. They do have them but they differ from the ones Wade has in his '37 Super 8 engine. The only followers that Egge have, have a pin that presses into the rocker arm and then the end outside the roller is "swaged". While those out of Big Red have a pin with a flange on the roller end and between the flange and the roller is a "collar" like those which came loose and ended up floating through the engine. On the other side of the rocker shaft, which the pin fits snuggly, there is another washer and then a tiny circlip. Somewhat different from Egge and also what Tom and Jim described. It is to be noted the spares that Wade has are like those Egge, Tom and Jim describe. Question - Was there a change in this part of the cam follower assembly at some stage in Super 8 history. Any information and advice is welcomed to help Wade through this problem.

Next on the agenda was dis-assembling one of rollers. Couldn't find a pair of circlip pliers with small enough points to do the job. So while Wade carried on there I moved onto cleaning parts again, this time in preparation for painting. Did right front suspension, backing plate, some engine parts and other "stuff". However before I was too far into cleaning there was a cry of anguish from Wade. He'd ground down the noses of his small pair of circlip pliers and managed to get a circlip off. Yeah - right off! Sproing! The circlip took flight literally and disappeared into that secret place all workshops have that gobbles up dropped nuts, bolts and washers, etc. After a fruitless search, of course, Wade then dis-assembled another but this time extra carefully.

The difficulty in fitting the modern seal to the timing cover was overcome in two parts. First Wade ground off the 3 little "pimples" on the inside of the cover preventing the seal from seating level. Even then it was somewhat reluctant to do so, so was left in the press under pressure to "encourage" it to seat properly. Wade also fitted the re-built front shocks back on Big Red, first pieces of equipment to go back on the car.

And Jim, in response to your post.

I am shocked the washers came un-swaged from the roller pins.[i] These are not the swaged type but, as described above, have a flanged pin and circlip arrangement.

[i]What has Wades experience been with this style Packard rocker assembly? I think, and I'll have to check with Wade, he's had experience with 3 Super 8 engines - 1) the one in his '34 which is completely rebuilt but I don't know how involved Wade was in this, 2) the one he rebuilt for Kevin, a '35, but I don't think the cam followers were an issue there, and 3) the '37 now being worked on. He also has some spares rollers and rockers but these came with the '34, I think.

EDIT - Link to Picasa album with more pic's(near bottom) of cam followers. Ignore the out of focus ones by this inept photographer please.http://picasaweb.google.com/ozstatman/WadeSWorkshopMay2009#

Attach file:

---

  (25.57 KB)


  (19.68 KB)


  (19.54 KB)


  (11.82 KB)


  (17.97 KB)


  (17.63 KB)


  (12.73 KB)

Regarding 39Super8's comments The other surprising thing for me is that every one of these rocker assemblies ....I have ever encountered have been totally worn out. They typically seem to wear the tiny internal bushings out, as well as gull the pins pretty bad. :

I've experience with three sets, all with the forged arms (earlier arms were stampings), one set from my spare engine, one set purchased loose, and the set in my own engine in my 34 Eight. But I only have history on the set in my engine - they were removed at about 47,000 miles when I did a valve job, and were in good condition and left as is. When at 89,000 it was time to rebabbit the rods and mains they were removed again; had my wallet been a bit thinner I would have left them alone as they seemed fine, but I did take the opportunity to replace them with the Egge variety. I suspect that those that show extreme wear may have come from engines with very high mileage or with excessive bearing clearances and thus low oil pressure.

At least from 33-36 Packard serviced them as an assembly with the arm, and not individual replacement rollers. May or may not have continued this way throughout the service life of the engine, I don't know but the parts books (which I haven't checked) would give a clue, though it's possible the design could have been superceeded with a change but retaining the same part number.

Hi Mal,

It looks like this engine already had the Egge type replacement pins. I am confused about what Egge told Wade, the ones I purchased from them a few years ago are pins that press through, with circlip grooves and tiny circlips that hold the assembly on. The Egge ones also do not run the bushing inside of the roller. They basically look like the close up picture of the disassembled one you posted. I really hope circlips coming dislodged isn't a regular situation. When I replaced mine, I wasn't thrilled with the circlip retaining method, but had no choice.

This is an interesting design, such a tiny amount of bearing surface for such a high amount of load.

As I read O_D's reply, it occurs to me that Packards may have gotten driven farther and harder in the southwest explaining the wear in key areas of these early engines. Lots of wide open space and long stretches in this part of the country.

I will follow this thread with keen interest. It's fun to see the progress!

Jim

Friday 15th May 2009

Before going to the workshop rang David of Antique Tyre Supplies. Wanted to catch him before he left, he was delivering the 20 litres of oil Wade had ordered on Wednesday, to try and order some beading for the cowl of the '41. Missed him, as he was already on the road!

First up at the workshop walked up to Mowad's, the panelshop up on the next corner, forgot to mention we went there yesterday. We'd taken up the grill surround from Big Red because Wade needed some paint to "touch up" the filling job that Paul had done on the holes behind the cowl beading. Picked up about 500mls of paint and now have to find an airtight container to store it in long term, depending on how much is left over.

Back at the workshop David arrived soon after we did with the oil. I was able to give him my contact details and he'll call me later this afternoon when he gets back to his warehouse.

I then Marine Cleaned and Metal Readied the parts cleaned yesterday in preparation for POR-15 on Monday. While I was doing that Wade re-installed the re-built brake master cylinder and the new hand brake cable from the the hand brake handle to the equaliser in the chassis. Wade is also mounting a 6V electric fuel pump and contemplating where to place it, probably as close to the fuel tank as possible.

Then arriving home, in the mail was a Money Order from Terry(traumjaegercat) for the '34 shock links and front axle shock mount brackets. The parts were mailed today, so when received Terry will have to adapt them to his '34.

Attach file:

---

  (16.94 KB)


  (10.84 KB)


  (9.28 KB)


  (17.65 KB)


  (14.26 KB)


  (11.43 KB)


  (10.32 KB)

Monday 18th May 2009

You might have noticed that recent picture quality has been poor? It usually is with this photographer, but even more so lately as my little digital Samsung camera appears to be giving up the ghost. It was readily apparent yesterday from our Packard Club run, with most of my pic's being of very poor quality being washed out or with lines through them so that's why no post on yesterdays event. The only ones I did post were taken early in the day and were of Thief-Proof numbers and Body tags. So on the way to the workshop stopped and shopped. Bought a Canon Powershot with 10 megapixels and 4 gigabyte SDHC memory card, should keep me going for a while. And I certainly never considered O_D's film camera option!

At the workshop it was POR-15 painting day for the parts Marine Cleaned and Metal Readied last Friday. But when I arrived found Wade talking with Packard Club member Peter who'd dropped in for a chat. So once Pete left I was into a final wipe over of the parts with a damp rag and then stringing them up ready for painting. To make sure they were all dry they were given a quick going over with the compressed air gun. Then the cans of POR-15 were opened, First one had a thick skin over what was left in the bottom of the can and similarly for the second. So that stopped my painting plans for the day. A little later Wade ordered some more POR-15 to be delivered tomorrow, so I live to paint again another day.

It took well over an hour to string all the parts up on the frame and during that time Wade had been painting! He'd mixed up some engine colour and painted the trans and a few other small engine parts, and was very careful in doing so as he'd left his work clothes at home. Turned to cleaning more parts, this time mainly from the left side in preparation for Marine Clean and Metal Ready later this week.

EDIT - Yesterday Wade borrowed the king pin reamer from another Peter in the club. This time Peter will definitely get them back sooner than the 13 months I had them for reaming the '41's king pins!

Attach file:

---

  (27.52 KB)


  (25.82 KB)


  (25.56 KB)


  (13.07 KB)

Congrats on the new camera, Mal.

We joke about "cleaning" parts but at times I enjoy it.

Taking a grime covered thing and making it whole again gives a sense of accomplishment to me.

Attach file:

---

  (207.01 KB)

Above, Wade and Mal without grease and Gina looking good as always.

Wade is a snappy dresser. I particularly like the watch chain. Mal is like me - too casual to give a damn.

Tuesday 19th May 2009

Arrived at workshop to find a tin of POR-15 had already arrived by courier, so no excuses this time. Wade cleaned up the steering box and column while I quickly cleaned some more bolts to paint. While Wade painted the steering I started on one side of the windchimes setup. Then when Wade had finished painting the steering he started on the other side of the windchimes. Only one minor drama when I tipped over the paint container, a round plastic throwaway, but fortunately only lost a little. Of course, seeing I was wielding a brush ended up with paint on me while Wade, snappy dresser that he is, avoided that!

Painting finished I turned to cleaning still more parts on the wire wheel and using the blasting cabinet as required. Will Marine Clean and Metal Ready those tomorrow after todays painting has dried and the windchime apparatus once again becomes available. While I was doing that Wade was working on getting the boom gate to the rooftop carpark working. Last night he took home a water damaged circuit board from the controller and repaired it. Today he replaced the cable between the control box and the card reader post. Still has to refit the post and the new card reader then the boom gate will be back in business. Wade also removed the clutch shaft bearing cover, made a new gasket and reinstalled it.

While we in the midst of painting Tony, Noel's mate, arrived. Tony, a retired panelbeater, had made a new metal water distribution plate to go inside the side water jacket cover. Was checking with Wade to see that it was OK, and it sure was, looks real good. He'll be back with the finished product later in the week, all going well.

Attach file:

---

  (29.81 KB)


  (24.10 KB)


  (15.64 KB)


  (17.96 KB)