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Sorry you had to pass. As to the registration via motor number, if you find another Packard it may also be registered that way. It was pretty common in many states. Actual standardized VINs didn't come for several years so until they did, lots of different methods were chosen by mfgs and individual states.

Thief proof numbers are pretty much no help because there are no known records surviving. I take it the Briggs tag on the firewall was also changed or missing. That tag may not have been the exact final out the door number but should have been close to the original.

That's the issue. The Brigs tag on the firewall has the engine number stamped on it! So, without a valid serial number on either plate, the original vin number cannot be determined. Now the seller is holding onto my $1,000 deposit and refuses to return it. It's not like I got cold feet, but found a real problem that he refuses to recognize. I sent him the money via PayPal, and I'm trying to have them help me get it back. It's too bad as the car looked gorgeous and I was ready to pick it up via carrier.

I agree that the screw-on plate is likely a repro. I've always seen these stamped with a simple font - that one looks engraved (over-restoration). As a previous poster says, there were no VIN numbers back then. The serial number being on an easily removed plate, it is common for a car to be titled on an engine number. If the title number matches the number on the engine block, I would not be concerned.

I was unaware that vinyl was a factory trim - is this a 23rd series car? Was the 22nd series the same?

The Brigs tag on the firewall has the engine number stamped on it!

Are you sure you're referring to the Briggs body number tag? See picture of the early style (late 1952 and back) Briggs body number tag. Since these were attached by Briggs when the body shell was built and before it was painted, there is no way the engine number could have been known at that time.

Sometime during late 1952 or early 1953 the Briggs body tag was modified, adding a line at the bottom that said "Briggs Mfg. Co, Detroit Mich."

Briggs tag photo courtesy of Mr. Jim Balfour. I've accumulated a modest database (thanks to many members on this forum, and others) of about 2300 number sets with VN (not VIN) #s and Briggs body numbers with corresponding thief-proof numbers and in some cases engine numbers. Some of this data is from original Packard records. If any of this data might prove useful to you, send me a PM with whatever data you do have on the car.

AND... I'm always looking for new data from unmolested cars, so if anyone has such data and hasn't provided it to me previously, I'd appreciate receiving it.

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I don't know if 'Imitation Leather' equals 'vinyl', but imitation leather is what was offered on the 2279/2379.

The 22nd Series 2279 offered:
..Imitation leather in tan, ivory, light red, blue, or dark red.

The 23rd Series 2379 offered:
..Imitation leather in red or tan.
..Woven tan plastic with a brown or red stripe.

The car under discussion is purported to be a 22nd series.

thanks, something learned today - yes, "imitation leather" is marketingese for vinyl.

Imitation leather is somewhat synonomous with "leatherette" which some auto manufacturers chose to call it. In it's earlier forms, perhaps with the breaking point about WWII, it was made from a sturdy natural fiber backing cloth to which multiple layers of boiled linseed plus pigments were added and then the whole was pressed between rollers which may or may not have also been used to impart a "leather" type grain pattern.

In later years a synthetic fabric backing and synthetic polymers were used and that is what was generally referred to as "vinyl" due to the nature of the synthetic polymers used.

Thanks for all of your help and info. Being a Corvette guy for many years, and an NCRS member, and dealing with Corvette Forum, has helped me to learn to rely on the experts in these forums.

I am learing a great deal about Packards, and the lack of real serial number is a big concern to me, as oneday, I could be selling this car to get another Packard, and potential buyers who are packard experts would have their doubts, as I, a novice for this make, have.

The car is a 22nd series judging from the engine number from what I was told. It does have a spear running down the middle of the body as the 23rd series does, along with the 22nd series lower body molding. Perhaps someone, a dealer maybe, added it back in the day.

As far as the Brigs body tag goes, he did not send me a picture of that, but I asked him to locate the small metal tag on the firewall, and read me the number. It came up as the engine number.

RIght now we are in a dispute over the deposit, and although I realize a 'deposit is a deposit' I am not moving forward due to a real issue, not because I am just getting cold feet or a different car. Disappointed I am not getting this car, but documenting a real car is quite important to me.

Thanks for all of your expert advice and help.

Dennis
(Lakecreature)

As far as the Brigs body tag goes, he did not send me a picture of that, but I asked him to locate the small metal tag on the firewall, and read me the number. It came up as the engine number.

Something really fishy there - I'd love to see the photograph of that tag.

Fishy, I agree. It sounds to me like a hybrid- an amalgamation of a 22nd- 23rd convertible/4 door sedan. I would like to see the engine number stamped on the engine. 288 or 327?

Looks like somebody made one car out of two or more donors.