Packard Forum Index » General

Why no distilled water? Here in the Chicago area the water is faily hard and full--so I am told--of calcium, Presumably the calcium is what eventually stuffs up the radiator....

Don't mean to be disrespectful, but can you back up the no-distilled-water bid with reliable proof?

Distilled water doesn't have much in it chemically, so what makes it a vampire?

As I see it, we are not discussing de-ionized water.

Not to start a new topic, but I just want to say something about all this animal rights stuff. I worked in a place where there were dogs running around and a shop cat. They ate everything in sight except anti-freeze. Later in a place infested with rats, the anti-freeze never resulted in any dead rats.

Cats have no sensation of sweets and maybe not dogs either. If they do then they may just me eating the stuff for approval. Bears obviously taste sweet, but I don't know about skunks, but if you have ever lived in a place overrun with skunks then you will be leaving the stuff all over the garage. Racoons are also pests. Unfortunately squirrels don't eat the stuff either.

Mr. Greene, in the parlor, with a candlestick holder-- Another adviso against using distilled water in automotive cooling systems was issued circa 1989-90 by Mercedes-Benz, to all their service departments, for the same reason. Am only trying to pass along the best info we have to a newbie as we're discussing cooling systems in general, with a possible eye toward preserving our wheeled survivors. Am not interested in debating quantified chemistry.
For more discussion, visit www.no-rosion.com, the Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg Club's tech forum.
Caution: Su8overdrive takes evolution over intelligent design, too.

I bow as always to Drs. Cole and O'Dyneto whelming knowledge of our cars stem to stern, but Click and Clack and dozens of others have issued the same warning about antifreeze, pets, kids.

Long as we're wonking, a lifelong pilot/machinist/aero and auto mechanic friend says a Chevron tech recently told him to only use GL-1 gear lube in pre- '60s or so transmissions with yellow metal, as the sulfur in all else eats brass, bronze. I'd thought we'd exhausted this subject, but it would be nice if anyone could conclusively drive a stake through this vampire's heart once and for all for the sake of peace of mind, and not disintegrating our R-9/R-11 transmissions.

Was looking at one of my spare overdrives for the above transmissions t'other day, remarking that it's nearly as big and heavy as the entire manual transmission i helped a friend stuff back in his '41 Cad drophead after he fixed a leak. So i'm sure most of us would rather not have to rebuild our gearboxes, esp. with the hassle of removing that cross member, etc. Hell's bells, a Hudson transmission of the era weighs but 35 lbs.

Everyone in my wide circle of all manner of barouches from both sides of the Atlantic 1930s throgh '60s; Cords, Cads, Ferraris, numerous Packards, has been rolling along happily with GL-5/6 these past decades with nary a report of sulfur/acid damage.

Happy New Year; joy, peace, health, serenity to us all, our wheeled alter egos, their cooling systems, and yellow metal.

As regards the GL-1, I've tried that in worn out units and it is too slippery for the synchros. So if I have a vehicle that is shifting okay I leave it alone. In most every case when I took apart a trans for the first time it had hypoid oil in it, so the damage was already done although by the 1960's only overseas car makers were not using hypoid in manual transmissions with bronze synchros.

You can get the heavy 140w mineral oil from Lubriplate.

The Mil Spec 2105 for GL-5 is supposed to required bronze tolerance, but I have tested the stuff in copper and it does react.

One other note about freeze up on the Senior 8 motors - the flexible water jacket should prevent most damage risk from freeze up so I'm sure the car is alright.

As regards tap versus distilled water. City water supplies are probably okay, but do not use well water. I have never understood why they don't just use additives to neutralize disolved chlorides in city water. It makes no sense except that there is higher profit from pushing premixed coolant.

Thank you, Dr. Cole. 140 weight might be a wee thick for us in the mild greater SF/Oakland Bay Area. Meanwhile, as said, everyone i know is running the usual Pennzoil/Kendall/other major brand GL 5-6 stuff, and i haven't heard any horror stories, including a coupla longtime mechanics who've been overhauling transmissions since the '50s. In fact, no one had the least concern 'til some alarmist bit in Skinned Knuckles from the same characters who bought into the fire in a crowded theater zinc motor oil nonsense.

As posted here months ago, the longtime Kendall tech i spoke with showed me that, for example, the Kendall GT1 10W/30 i use has the SAME zinc level as in the '70s, and we heard no such nonsense back then. The non-problem began when increased ZDDP levels started harming catalytic convertors, so the major oil companies dialed it back to '70s levels.

But all the downhome hotrod black helicopters contingent heard is "zinc being reduced." About that time, a couple vociferous codgers in the 1941 Cadillac Club of America, formerly the CCCA, reported problems with Cadillac's chintzy bronze timing gear in their 346 flathead V-8s, coincidentally after having just been rebuilt. So, as with silicone DOT-5 brake fluid, gasoline, it's always easier to blame the big, bad oil companies, etc. than take a look at the work recently performed.
BTW, the Kendall tech himself owns a well-tweaked '60s Camaro with a flat cam engine, and knows the fellow who developed the 15W/40 "Classic Car Motor Oil" marketed by the Indiana region of the CCCA. The Kendall tech freely admitted that Kendall sold an unnecessary oil with heightened zinc today simply as "....any company that wants to stay in business has to provide people with what they think they need or want."

Meanwhile, we're lucky in that those of us in the Bay Area served by "EBMUD (East Bay Municipal Utility District)" have, along with NYC receiving soft, clean water from the Adirondacks, two of the best, softest water supplies in the nation, our water coming down from Sierra snowmelt.

The downside is the Bay Area is overpopulated HELL, with neverending torrents of twits in SUVs racing to Starbucks and the mall, so if any of you are thinking of moving here, do yourselves a favor and stay put. The only time you can enjoy your Packard on the road is at the crack of dawn on a major holiday like Christmas, New Year's, Thankgsiving, or Stupor Bowl Sunday, i kid you not.

I think the key is soft water, regardless its source.

So, GL-5/6, much ado about nothing?

Happy New Year and Merry Ninth Day of Christmas.

Nothing much I can add here other than to repeat which I've said several times before when this question has come up. I've used SAE 85/140 EP hypoid gear oil (GL-5) in transmissions, differentials and overdrives of Packards between 1934 and 1954 for more than 25 years and never had an issue. For a long time I got Pennzoil but of late it's been Valvoline, in 5-gal pails.

As to the premix ethylene glycol antifreeze, I usually draw my needs from a 55 gallon drum at the local service station; I did note that it stated on the label that the water was deionized. The brand was PEAK

Dr. O'Dyneto's, and Dr. Cole's, advice has always been matchless, so good enough for me, and thank you, sir(s).
I just wish i knew why this gear oil fright kept rearing its persistent lil' haid. The zinc malarkey i can see, even the silicone DOT 5 brake fluid dire predictions, since most people don't bother to follow directions and always want to blame any mechanical malaise in worn out old cars on the last elixir used.

Well, Dr O'D, you and i've been using precisely the same oil and weight in our transmissions and pumpkins for as long. I'd say knock on wood, but your well-tended '34 has wood, my '47 not a stick. No--- wait. There's a small piece in the rear seat foldown armrest.

But back to the cooling system saga, the posters above and below are right as rain about cooling systems rusting quickly if left empty. Better to keep them filled at all times, tho'
again, i'd never, ever use antifreeze unless 1, the car might be exposed to a hard freeze, or 2, it has air conditioning, as above.

The point to make is that after water reaches freezing temperature it expands as it get colder than freezing.

I use regular old 50/50 pre-mixed antifreeze in my model T ford and my 54 Packard.

The only concerns had to do with aluminum parts but I am led to believe the current stuff is safe with anything.

There's the story of a friend who had an all original, low mileage 1932 flat-head ford V8 roadster and he was showing off his newly painted garage floor and left the car outside for the night.

It cracked both heads.

Myth #1 Freeze plugs will protect the block. They are actually there for the casting process and are not intended to protect anything. They will pop out but usually the block is ruined.

Repairing a cracked block is extremely difficult and expensive and then you have to do a total rebuild of the engine.

Myth #2 draining the cooling system will protect it. Maybe but I want to know there is no water trapped in a tight space like a pump or something.

Jim