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An old friend has a chance to buy back the '30 Model 745 roadster he long ago owned, and wondered how many of these Packard built. I know total '30 Model 745 production was 1,789 cars. But, does anyone know how many 745 roadsters were produced?

Many thanks.

Since there were no records kept (or records that have surfaced) of production numbers by body type, I'd think the only way to approach an estimate would be to use one of the statistical analysis estimates that have been done from time to time of buyer's preferences in a particular era and price range for one body style over another and apply that to the total number of 745s produced. Some such studies have been published by The Packard Club over the years though I can't offhand recall any for the 7th series. Just my own guess, something like 6-10% might be a reasonable estimate. Statistical analyses for somewhat later years indicate that closed 4-door cars were typically about 80% so for the 745 the balance would have been distributed over the other 10 body types after one substracted the number of chassis sales for custom coachwork.

Not many. Maybe 20% of 745 production were open cars (read side curtains), the bulk being 7 passenger limosines. Rarer still was the dual cowl of which there are so many fakes. The survival rate is higher because a lot of them were limited use vehicles, but most of them are fakes.

One way to find a fake is checking springs because they have different rates than closed cars. But if the springs have been serviced that goes out the window.

After 1931 serial numbers contained the body type so fakes are harder to produce because it requires political grease to change a VIN number.

On top of that are standard eight bodies being installed on Custom Eight chassis. However, unless the doner was a low mileage original car - what's the loss?

Thank you as always, Drs. O'Dyneto & Cole. All of us using this splendid site owe you two for your considerable knowledge readily shared. It occurred to me this was the case, but my friend insisted it was in Turnquist's 1966 book, which he misplaced, and so thought a concise figure was available. I'll forward him your comments.

This same fellow still has the sound, solid, original '38 Twelve victoria he's owned since the late '50s. A fellow ex-NYer, when he and his wife were still kids, they used to drive into Manhattan from Long Island, this being 1958-59, park casually on the street, go inside to see a movie. He recalled taking it to a greater NYC CCCA meet in those years, where the usual annoying clubbies minced over to chide them for bringing such a late-model Packard, with its inelegant pontoon fenders, instead of the 1933-34 "Golden Era's" clamshells.

He's selling his second, and perhaps last Duesenberg at the upcoming Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale auction next weekend, a LWB '34 Model J Murphy Custom Beverly sedan. Can only hope my efforts to remind him how august the Packard Twelve truly was and is in the '30s heavy iron pantheon will help him detox from the Duesenberg Kool Aid he drank his entire life.

Long story short: The business about a young Enzo Ferrari being inspired to create his first diminutive V-12 in 1947 by Packard's Twin-Six of the teens is nonsense. Ferrari was mightily inspired by the later Packard Twelves of the '30s, but as Packard was still selling a few expensive cars in the '50s and seen as competition for some of his wealthy customers, was advised to keep that respect to himself.

W.O. Bentley, during the years of his Speed Six and Eight-Liter Cricklewood namesakes, had nothing but open respect for Packard. Ettore Bugatti preferred his Packard for business trips.

The last time i saw his '38 Twelve run was 1978, when, after sitting some time, with naught but a wee VW group one battery, it came readily to life, and drove like a steam turbine.

Quote:

This could be construed to mean that there were standard eight (733) phaeton bodies and deluxe eight (740/745) phaeton bodies for 1930. I believe the bodies are identical. There is at least one small difference between a real dual-cowl and a regular sport phaeton, and that is in the B-pillar vent on the dual-cowl vs no vent on the regular sport phaeton. Someone making a "quickie" fakey-do will forgo making the vent.

As far as production, the Turnquist book gives production for 1931, so you can extrapolate an idea for 1930 production from that. Of a total of 1,795 840 models built, 154 were roadsters.

Thinking back to my guess that the so-called couple-roadster production probably averaged about 6-10% of total production for luxury cars in the early 30s, I doodled with some math based on the highest known vehicle numbers known to me. You can only use this approach on 32 and newer models for which the VN was the combination of the body type + production sequence number and this means at least this many were produced, but this is not the actual %, just a minimum based on the VNs known to me.

1932 Std. 8 style 509 - 6.61% of 7659 total production
1932 DeL 8 style 519 - 3.3% fo 1655 total production
1932 Twin6 style 579 - ?% of 549 total production

1933 Eight style 609 - ?% of 2980 total production
1933 Su8 style 659 - 3.9% of 1300 total production
1933 Twelve style 639 - 6.4% of 520 total production

1934 Eight style 719 - 4.5% of 5120 total production
1934 Su8 style 759 - 6.7% of 1920 total production
1934 Twelve style 739 - 5.0% of 960 total production

For a quickie comparison to closed 4-door cars, applying the same method for the 1934 Eight comprising the 1100 sedan, the 1101 sedan, formal sedan and club sedan, and 1102 lwb sedan and limo yields 82%. The 1100 sedan (style 703) alone was nearly 50% of the total 1934 Eight production. Thus all the other body styles, the 2 fixed coupes, touring, phaetons, convertible victoria and convertible sedans combined were probably between 8 and 12% of total production. I've got some %-ages for a few of them as well if anyone is interested.

Super 8.
Does the car your friend wants back have dual rear-mounted spare tires?

Is anyone familiar with a 745 roadster with dual rear-mounted spare tires???

Bob's numbers for 1931 were estimates, I assume using the highest number he found using the new serial number system.
They are actually fairly generous as to the number of open cars.

The standard eight and custom eight bodies are interchangible starting with the 7th series so you will find things like standard eight serial numbers on V-12 phaetons for 9th and later series cars. Indicating a fake.

I was told by an old time good authority that most of the dual cowl phaetons are fakes. He had owned a dozen Packard Phaetons before he found a dual cowl car. That was back in the early 60's and he was very well connected. Obviously cars like the ex Jean Harlow car are genuine because there is a picture of it when new. Others have disappeared like Ted Kavenagh's 733 dual cowl - obviously cut up for the body.

One thing about these VIN numbers - and I have some corporate experience with such matters - it is possible that the number after the body type (ie 791, 751,...) does not represent the car number but the manufacturing lot number. For instance when they were building a phaeton body it was tagged as number 100, then when it was placed on a car the body type prefix was added. They didn't inventory it as an Eight or Super 8 body. Turnquist concluded that this must have been due to Packard selling twice as many open cars as the competiton, but to me it throws up a red flag. If open cars were as common as Turnquist thought, it makes no sense why so many coupes, town cars, and sedans were being torched for parts. According to Turnquist they built more Roadsters than Coupes. No way.

Nowadays I just wish they could fix the VIN numbers to show the correct year. They haven't even figured that out.