Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

I am going to throw this idea out as I have been thinking about all the complications involved with the automatic leveling of the Torsion Level cars. Could air shock asorbers be substituted as a means of leveling the cars? This would seem to be a simple solution to all the problems involved with the automatic leveling system. Be kind in your replies, please.

I guess anythings possible but why. Not sure the original sensor arrangement would be satisfactory so that might need to change. There may be an advantage in simplicity but I think the biggest disadvantage would be the air shock would now be transmitting the extra force of leveling and bumps to frame. One of the main benefits of TL is the ride-- having the suspending force shared between wheels with frame & car isolated but along for the ride is now gone.

Gee, my own experience with the T/L system is that it's totally free of any problems and maintenance other than a few extra grease fittings to attend do, and a gearbox that requires occasional lubrication. What's the problem? Nothing will give a ride quality like that system.

John, could you enumerate what you perceive as "all the problems"? This system sat in my garage for 20 years. When I decided to finally spend some time and money, the T/L system came to life and has functioned well in my 400 since 1992. I have replaced the upper control arm bushings and the donuts on the rear axle plus the torque arm bushings. I consider that extraordinary in the fact it required little else. Do you think the air shocks will still function after 50 years? Packard's T/L system has proven far superior to ANY other system that I know of - air shocks specifically. With all due respect, how much do you actually know about the T/L system? It sounds as though you are suggesting something to replace inflatable tires because you have seen one go flat. Admittedly my answer is not kind, but it seems that your question arises out of ignorance rather than experience.
Would you please list your experience with the T/L system?
Thank you.

My '56 Patrician sat for 42 years and all it took was greasing every fitting and driving it to get it to work perfectly. I did have to reconnect the wires that the rats chewed in two, and replace the control box, but it works perfectly with a minimum amount of maintenance. Air shocks would be an abomination on such a fine car.

You are all knowledgeable and expert with the Torsion Level system. I admire your willingness to share this knowledge and expertise in helping those who post requests for help with these systems on this forum. The question I posed was from what I have observed on this forum of inquires on how to solve problems with the system. I understand your devotion to the TL system, and the desire to keep these cars original and true to their design. I was merely looking for a simplified solution to the problems some owners (who do not have your knowledge and experience) have experienced with their systems that could be easily implemented by them. Please don't kill the messenger. Thanks.

John -

I don't think anyone is trying to shoot the messenger or that you're dissing on the T-L system.

I'm gonna assume that you're suggesting air shocks with an automatic levelling control (ALC) system. Air shocks ain't exactly cheap (provided you can find a pair that will fit these cars), but I think you'll find that a modern electronic control box for automatic-levelling isn't really much cheaper than an NOS compensator control box for the T-L system these days. Although someone out west offers a compatible solid-state replacment for the original T-L compensator control box, the original can be "renewed".

Meanwhile, I haven't really heard of any insurmountable problems in renewing the T-L compensator motor. Others have reported good substitutes for the solenoids, here. Limit switches for the 55th Series seem to be plentiful, but I've heard that those for the 56th Series, though scarce, can also be renewed.

Another factor to consider is the (retrofit) manual override for the T-L system, as well as the stock cut-off switch - neither of which any manufacturer saw fit to include with their ALC system. Believe me there were several times, with later model cars, that I sure wish they had.

Most of the T-L problems that you've read about have been with cars that were severely neglected or from incompetent, previous reapir attempts. The worst thing you might face is overtravel of the load-leveling function that can destroy some critical mechanical parts, but I suspect there's an ample supply of good used parts in that regard

I think retrofitting air shocks with ALC would be a lot more difficult and costly than troubleshooting and repairing the TL system. Then, don't bet on specific electronic parts for ALC systems still being available even ten years down the road.

John, I wasn't trying to kill the messenger. It just seemed that your proposal was to replace the T/L system with something far inferior. From that I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that you had little or no experience with the actual T/L system. Allison's design and Packard's implementation was a wonder considering that Packard changed engines, transmissions and suspension all in the same year. When I see and hear of Chrysler's broken Torsion bars which are so common, it amazes me even more that Packards have held up so well. The ride derived from the T/L system cannot be compared to air shocks.

Randy and BH (and others), I was suggesting adjustable air shock asorbers in the rear for only the automatic leveling part of the torsion bar suspension. I was not suggesting to replace the main torsion bar suspension system. I agree, the torsion bar suspension provides a wonderful ride and a degree of controlability not found in other cars of this period. It was a remarkable application of this type of suspension. While my idea was probably flawed, the ensuing discussion was helpful and informative. Thanks.

My Question,
The air shocks I have used were for adding lift to the sagging rear springs to bring the car back up level. Since the torsion leveling system is supposed to do that for you wouldn't the extra life provided by the air shocks be read by the T/L system as an error in the level and adjust the level back down?? I am assuming that the T/L system is still operable.