Packard Forum Index » Project Blogs

When you say stuck in first I take it the gears were still spinning and gears clashing was the reason it wouldn't go into second?? If spinning is not the issue, does the lever feel the same with engine stopped and with it running?

As I recall, my clutch fork isn't able to be removed or done much with while the pressure plate is in place. I wouldn't think you could have displaced anything as long as it wasn't removed. If you were able to remove it then it might be a possibility. What did you take off to clean? If the fork was left alone, possibly something was cracked or worn and causing your previous issue then finally gave up with the stress of an adjustment change.

Taking the bottom off might let you see if the fork looks OK but there is not a lot you can really see or do with the transmission in position. There is a photo in the 46-50 manual showing what you can see -- not very much.

As to whether you can change it yourself, there is a procedure on changing the clutch plate in various postwar SM's and in the training manual. Supporting the rear of engine is a must for starters. If you haven't done it before, it might be nice to have help the first time or else thoroughly read up on what is involved. There are some things that an experienced helper can make a little easier. Knowing what if anything might have to be removed beforehand to clear would be helpful.

To remove the transmission doesn't really take any special tools -- other than maybe jacks -- but does take some knowledge of how things fit together, muscle power and finesse. There is a tool needed to align the clutch plate and long bolts to pilot the transmission sliding in and out but those are easily made. The important thing is safety.

The trans is one very heavy piece of metal being maneuvered in a tight space so needs to be done properly and carefully to avoid damaging anything. There was one forum poster who did his Clipper laying on his back using just muscle power but I know I couldn't do mine that way.

One other thought. You didn't say exactly what the previous not working good issue was. Usually worn clutch plates cause slipping or loss of power so if that was not the issue, I'd wonder about other things.

Thanks for looking at this, Howard.

What kind of spacer did you put on your adjusting rod?

The last couple of weeks, it's been a little harder to get into gear after a stop light. I would have to try a couple of times before it would go into 1st.

Friday, as I was driving to work, I had a little harder time getting it into gear. This was after I cleaned it and "adjusted" and took it for a quick test around the neighborhood. It seemed fine during the test. No serious grinding. I always slip it into 2nd before I put it in 1st gear. Seems to slow the gears down.

So, I headed off to work. At a stop light, I started off in 1st but could not get it to shift into 2nd. It was like there was a wall there. Then when I tried to take it out of 1st, it wouldn't come out, so I decided, since I was in gear and it would motate, I'd just head back home because I needed to get to work. I know this condition happens. Stop the car and shut it off. Adjust the shift levers to neutral and try again. I was just afraid I might not be able to get it into 1st again, so headed home.

The column shift lever lever definitely feels different with engine off. It shifts into all gears including reverse, easily. With the engine running, it's completely blocked from going into 2nd. The level doesn't even what to go there and it will not grind. But if I try to put it in 1st, the level will go there, but only to grind on the gears.

I didn't remove the fork. I looked in the inspection hole and I could see that it wasn't something I could have bumped and moved.

Taking off the cover, I was thinking I could see the thickness of the plate, like when I washed it with brake cleaner. I could compare those photos taken 2,500 miles ago with now. Is that what makes a clutch quit completely like this... the plate is worn down? I've really had to think hard about how the clutch works. I press the level down with my foot. There's like a 8:1 ratio of movement between how far the pedal moves and how far the rod moves rearward. When the end of the fork move back, it should make the plate disengage from the flywheel.

If my friend Vaughn were willing and had the time he'd be ideal. I think he's done this before on a Packard. There are two college kids who are willing to help. They came today and worked on my son's 61 Jag, so i"d have some limber helpers. I have a floor jack and 4 jack stands.

Slipping. That's the way you know the clutch is going. Well, it hasn't been slipping lately, just harder to get into gear, like it didn't disengage enough. That's why I thought I could just adjust the pedal.

I haven't had the slipping problem for months...probably because of cooler weather. The slipping was caused by oil on the clutch. But I wouldn't doubt the clutch is worn. I know how to get to the transmission from above. I cut my soundproofing to make that easy.

I didn't take any of the shift linkage apart, just that adjustment rod.

Joe, you may remember my spacer was missing so I made one. Not sure it is correct since there were not many details or photos giving an accurate view or dimension. I made what I thought it would look like. Compared to yours, mine is bigger so whether yours is thin, mine is thick or each is right for the respective years is a question. Mine seems to work but the car has not been driven so it may prove to be an issue. The photo is what I have at the moment.

On your clutch, you should be able to check the wear of the clutch from the bottom. Since you have a new plate, a simple method would be to stack up a bunch of leaves from a feeler gauge to that thickness and then try and insert the stack between the flywheel and pressure plate & compare the new thickness to what is in the car. Not sure what the threshold for changing spec is but if the wear looks like the facing rivets are getting very close to metal then maybe a worthwhile project.

There are also some adjustable buttons on the pressure plate lever contact to throwout bearing which might have worn down or possibly loosened. That would cause a loss of motion or maybe incomplete release if other things were worn and tolerances are at the limit. No way to check those except to remove things and inspect. Any looseness or wear causing lost motion in the linkage could stack up and be the final straw. If the pressure plate has seen a lot of service then it too should be serviced or changed with the clutch disc.

There are numerous bulletins on shifting problems. Brian has them all organized in the 37-42 service index under transmission and overdrive. Reading thru might help shed light on a likely suspect. One in particular might be a good read. Check out the article on locking in gear in SL Vol 14 #21 and see if any of those symptoms or causes might apply.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/SC/SL-VOL14NO21.pdf

If nothing obvious pops up then a very careful examination of the entire linkage for looseness & missing or (if your car still has them), soft rubber bushings might be in order. The detent inside the trans is another source of problems so might be worth looking into.

Attach file:

---

  (20.48 KB)

Joe, I think your step-by-step documentary with text and photos will be most helpful to others doing this job.

Someone else take a look at image 8427, but to me it looks like the seal has been install backwards. Could be wrong, but...

(o{}o)

I struggled with the direction of the oil seal. The original had a closed metal edge on both sides. The replacements did not. The more exposed sides of each seal face toward the hub, that is the open side of the inner seal faces out and the open side of the outer seal faces in.

Two points led me to believe this is correct. 1. The part numbers of the replacements are in the same position as the originals. 2. It is impossible to install the inner seal without the spring popping off and bouncing into the axle housing and equally impossible to slip it over the rubber once the seal is mounted.

But then once pre-GPS late at night arriving at then National Airport, I was supposed to take George Washington Parkway, but couldn't find it, so I took Hwy 1 instead, because George Washington was our 1st President.

So there is the Possibility that that seal is in backwards.

"Open face" of the seal always goes towards the liquid or grease to be contained or sealed against.

I would echo what Howard stated. The problem sounds like slow linkage wear that has finally impacted performance.

Rich

AXLES SEALS

JW and Dave,
I don't doubt you.

In post 466, there's a pic of the Inner seal after I got it out with the framing hammer. Both sides are closed on the original. The backside of the seal, the side that was toward the carrier, is shown (with the claw marks). If you zoom in, you can see that the part number is on that side, toward the carrier, which is how I installed the new one that has one side open.

If that seal is designed to keep gear oil from going to the hub, which I understand, then it is in wrong.

My next question is HTH does one install it? I guarantee the spring will pop off if it is installed facing in. Is the spring something that should be removed? Just some kind of device to hold the shape of the rubber? Do you tape up the inner part and remove the tape after it's installed? (Yes it cost me $8 to learn this lesson. Now it looks like another $16 to replace both sides (when I get my new bearings.)

CLUTCH
Rich/Howard,
Since the clutch isn't and hasn't been slipping for months, it's likely to be the linkage. The clutch linkage only? The shift linkage? I can set the pedal at 1-1/2 " free play and leave that alone, but not sure what linkage I should adjust, tighten up.

I am curious about the spacer on yours. I could have my cars scrambled but believe at the time I was asking questions for mine you said your spacer appeared to be a washer??

The spacer part number appears to be the same on both our cars and used thru 23rd series so I would wonder about the thickness. From the photo in the later parts manual as well as one or two from a 22nd series I believe it was Dell that posted when I asked the question, I got the impression spacer was about 1/4 to 3/8 thick and is the dimension I made mine. I can't remember the thread the photos were posted in but if someone remembers and can reference it or has an actual dimension it would sure help the discussion.

Someone please correct me if my logic is in error but I believe when doing the adjustment to get the free play with too thin a spacer, it is possible the pedal or linkage will be at a disadvantage and max stroke will be reached. If that is the case then with anything worn, to my thinking with the linkage maxed, the lever for throwout bearing is possibly not being moved far enough and clutch is not fully releasing.

Howard, Part of it at least is Page 42, starting at post #419 of this thread.

What you remember is that my set up was no help because someone had welded a washer to the back of my fork. My linkage was messed with when the 120 engine when in (1965) and again when the 356 replaced it (1974).

I had Nothing between the long adjustment nut and the fork. As in the Before photo of the pedal linkage. I had only taken off the spring and the cotter pin at the end of the rod before taking the picture.

I fashioned a 3/8 inch spacer and stuck it in there after cleaning the parts. When the clutch didn't work, I replaced it with a nylon and metal washer just to have something against the fork.