Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

About 5 years ago i drove out to CA to grab a 9 main 327 and trans to bring back to Ohio. My 288 in my 1950/ultramatic was running well, but the engine bay was ratty. The rest of the car looked fantastic. I needed to rebuild the ultramatic anyways and i thought, if i yanked it all out, i could do an upgrade at the same time.

I sold the 288 to a gentleman on here (and the trans i picked up, as it turned out to be a 3 spd+OD, went to a gentleman here near Toledo.) After fuel, timing, and generator issues sorted, i put about 200-300 miles on the motor before chasing down a clacking sound, which turned out to be a number 2 rod bearing. the journal was scored, i put a new bearing in but it was still there, didn't even have time to cut up the new bearing, which lead others smarter than I to speculate that the number two really had a piston or rod issue.

In the end, i was disgusted as it was a large project (or so i thought until 2 years late i restore a truck ground up...i'll take a motor swap any weekend vs sanding forever!). I haven't touched it since except to start it and move it from the front garage to the back and then back to the front again depending what i'm working on. I have finished or sold other projects, so i'm eyeing this up to get back on the road. I kind of miss her, and with new diamond back radial WWW tires and a fresh ultramatic, it's a shame not to get on the road. I have a redi-rad ready to go in so i can listen to fm on the original radio, the interior is great and the dash and door surrounds were re-done and it just looks amazing.

Long story longer, i'm thinking it's about 4-5k total to rebuild one of these? I mean if i'm pulling it, and there's like 1500-2k in parts if you go new pistons, rods, etc and do it right, probably 1500-2k in labor to do balance, decking if needed, etc, etc. My car is a 4 door standard eight. Even with the 4bbl 327, it's not likely ever to be a 13-15k car. It doesn't make sense to put that kind of money into the car. On the other hand, for a few grand, i can have a hell of a driving packard back.

My questions for you guys are...would you rebuild it? Swap the desirable 9 main 327 for another ready to go 288?

(since the 288 was more tolerable to highway rpms correct? I'm still worried after a rebuild maybe doing 75-80 in it was too fast with the 327 and caused the bearing? I did 70-80 for 2 summers with the original 288 with no issues, everywhere i go is 15 minutes of highway from my house.)

I already did all the work to find an NOS 327 carb, correct heat shields, adapted to fit the 50 front mounts, thermostat, etc. It seems like the 327 would be a great motor for the car, especially if i chased down a 288 AT head for it, which are around. On the flip side, worried about RPMs like above after putting the money in, and i'm betting i can trade the 327 9 main for a ready to go or almost ready to go 288 in a heartbeat?

I feel like someone who's been sleeping awhile, so i thought i'd stretch and look around and see what everyone's thoughts are. I just want to get her back on the road and have her reliable again, but i don't want to take a shortcut and get bit like last time.

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Just my two cents but I would rebuild. The 327 9 main is a superb engine. You might get a good swap but you might find yourself in the same predicament with another engine. With rebuilding you would know what you have and if the work is done well, will be every bit as reliable as any new engine. Until you tear it down you won't know exactly what the problem is and you may find it is not as serious or need as much in the way of new parts as you think. Even if it does need some work, with the rest of the car in such nice condition IMO it would be a good expenditure.

That is a sweet 50. it should not be that much to properly rebuild one. i got way less quotes out here in California. I am thinking of rebuilding myself because i want it done right the first time and to run worry free for another fifty years.

I'd go with the rebuild for the same reasons HH56 gave you. At the very least you'll need a engine overhaul gasket set, and Kanter sells those starting at $930 for the basic kit to $1475 for the whole enchilada including new hydraulic lifters. I myself would disassemble and inspect all parts prior to rebuilding because that's all free... just simple sweat equity. At the least you'll then know if it's a simple fix like a failed lifter, or a bad rod, wrist pin, or piston. Those you can buy and replace individually.

Besides... what you have right now is an awfully nice engine in need of repair. The car is nice as well, and well worth the time, effort, and money to get it purring on down the road again.

That's my 2?

Kind regards!

Thanks for the input guys. If it comes out, it's getting a full rebuild.

Even if it was just one rod or lifter, the engine was kind of weak compared to the 288, at least as i recalled at the time. I'm thinking that it badly needs at least rings and a valve job/valves. It's been mentioned that people don't realize how much power these engines lose over time, and i'm guessing my 288 was fresher than i realized and the 327 was probably well worn in.

It doesn't make sense not to do the whole works if you're going to do anything with the crank, and this one needs cleaned up at least on that journal. Plus, i'd want to take it down to the bare block and get it cleaned and make sure the oil/water passages are spotless.

My main two worries are:

1) even if i rebuild it, will i be asking for trouble running the 327 at hard highway speeds (75-80mph?) Wasn't the 288 a little more reliable at higher rpms? I thought it had something to do with piston speed if i recalled reading here in the past?

Unless new rods are available that are stronger for not much money? I'm a pontiac guy, and rods were the weak point for that motor, and it's considered standard to throw at least $300 into new rods if you want to rev over 5k rpm. I wonder if similar rods are available or necessary?

2) is kind of cost, i really don't want to get into a 5k rebuild. 5k will buy you a decent 4 door. I was hoping someone had a rebuilt or nearly so engine somewhere that someone abandoned in a machine shop that would save me a lot of time and effort, or one they had done for a project and wanted out, but i'm not totally against a rebuild.

I guess the first course of action, if better rods are available or not needed, is to get it out and start calling around locally for quotes. I could ship or take it out of state to an expert, but i am pretty tapped on free time lately, and even worse once spring/summer gets here.

No need to even think about replacing the Packard connecting rods, they are very sturdy. And yes, the 327 has a longer stroke by 1/2" so piston speeds will be higher.

IMO, a steady diet of 75-80 mph is abusive of pretty much any car of that era, not to mention concerns about handling, breaking, metal fatigue, and the like.

Hi Cortcomp

Your reservation for the 327 versus the 288 at sustained highway speeds of 75/80mph seem to center around whether the longer stroke 327 will withstand that type of driving? Being a nine main 327, it has the advantage of a more rigidly held crankshaft over the five main bearing engine.

Otherwise, it depends on what axle ratio you have now, and what the final drive ratio would be with the convert locked out at those highway speeds. This is the point where those with more familiarity and facility with the calculation need to jump in for an accurate response....gentlemen?

Steve

PS: Owen makes a good point, I'd be more worried about bringing that hurling mass of Packard at 75/80 mph to a stop in the case of a panic situation with four wheel drum brakes which like to fade. Or keeping it under control when the situation required fast steering maneuvers.

Just a point of reference.

My '54 327 (w/288 head), which is a five bearing, solid lifter motor, cruises down the freeway just fine. I regularly have to remind myself to slow down as I look up and I am going well over 70. This is also with a GearStart Ultra that pretty much has decided that the lock-up on the converter isn't going to happen anymore.

Neither the transmission not the engine was rebuilt by me, or anytime after 1986. Just flushed and ran, and the motor was stuck when I got it. So have never taken the head off the motor. Just some penetrator down the cylinders to free it. Also the transmission was full of sludge to the point the filter was completely clogged.

Keep in mind my car has a 3:23 rear on it (which was standard on the Clipper with Ultra). So not sure if that makes the difference or not on the highway.

My point, is that sometimes with a little TLC, these old cars just want to run.

The car has always stopped, handled, drove well before i swapped the motor (besides the trans started to go.)

Not that i want to lean on it hard all the time and want it to do 80mph 5 days a week twice a day, but like Kevin said, sometimes you look down and you're booking. It's flat and straight most of the time here, it's not uncommon to be doing 75-80 and not noticed it, even in an older car.

I didn't know if going back to 288 would give me more insurance against the same problem if i found myself booking down the highway was my main reason for asking, i had thought with less piston speed, it'd be less prone to have a rod problem in the future?

The 288 that was in there loved to run, as kevin said. I mean, it ran smooth and hard, and it really did pull hard, up to 95 passing a couple times. I'd have to check the rear ratio, i thought all the ultramatics came with like a 3.54.

So it seems that the best bet, unless i found one fresh rebuilt with paperwork somewhere, would be to yank the 327, find a 288 automatic head, and get her rebuilt.

Guess i might have to head out to the garage after all this winter. Would be nice to have all three classic vehicles i have the garage ready for a drive.

I went out to size up the job earlier and got to work. Luckily i made some changes to make taking it out the front easier if i had to do it again (the cross bar above the radiator, wiring in that area.)

First, sitting in it definitely made me want to drive it again. The first step is the hardest they say.

Second, it was running hot towards the end and i wondered why. Even just idling. I have a good fan with a steep pitch on it, right up against the rad. I had it cleaned, and i didn't want the used motor gunking it up. So, i put a filter on the top hose (double screen.)

It has a newly refurbed distributor (the kind where the housing moves when it revs, so you know it's advancing), nos carb, no exhaust restrictions, high flow 160 stat. It should have run cool, and it did for awhile. Took the hose off, and the filter was almost completely plugged! Coolant coming out of the radiator was perfect though, so it did its job.

Got it tore down to here, imagine i can have it out this weekend in half a day when i have a change to get back out there.

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