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Fails to start warm
#1
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Paul E. Gallagher
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My car starts very easy when sitting in the garage. After a 20 to 30 minute ride today, it failed to restart. It was very hot here, about 90 to 95 degrees. This has happened twice now. Today, I waited about 20 minutes and it started right back up. Last week it started with a jump
( hence the new battery) but it had still sat for 30 minutes or so.

I got a new 6 volt battery last week and I am using mid grade gas with Star-Tron Enzyme additive. It is has been running perfect when started.

I know there are many experts out there,
What do you think is causing this

Posted on: 2020/7/26 16:51
'49 Deluxe Eight - 23rd Series
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Re: Fails to start warm
#2
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BDC
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Sounds like vapor lock.

Posted on: 2020/7/26 18:23
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Re: Fails to start warm
#3
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packard1949
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could be a weak coil-did you try starting fluid in carb?

If vapor lock-the normal fix is a electric fuel pump

Posted on: 2020/7/26 18:31
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Re: Fails to start warm
#4
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DavidPackard
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Not an uncommon question paulg3. I'm assuming the engine rotation is very slow when you are attempting a hot restart, and it is the slow cranking speed, plus very low voltage to the ignition system that is the cause of the problem. Twenty minutes later the cranking speed is high enough for the engine to start. If low cranking speed is one of the symptoms, then:

Most will suggest that for a 6 volt car 2/0 battery cables should be used, and all connections should be clean, so step one might be a check of the voltage level being supplied to the starter during this condition. A high voltage points to a secondary voltage drop somewhere in the current path, but a low voltage may point to a current/voltage/temperature characteristic of the battery.

I 'fixed' a similar problem by changing the solenoid, however since that car was equipped with the large format Delco solenoid I also had to remove the starter. There was a good amount of oil and 'crud' between the starter and bellhousing. That area received a good scrubbing before reassembly, so I really don't know if the 'crud' or the solenoid was the problem. Perhaps a 'stout' grounding strap from one of the starter bolts to ground would help. Prior to changing the solenoid I replaced the cables with 2/0 items and cleaned the connections, and the battery was also changed. The take-away from this is; big cables with good connects are mandatory on these cars, and the path to ground includes the solenoid and bellhousing/starter interface.

The second experience is something you don't want to hear. My '48 had exactly the same set of symptoms . . . even down to the time it took to recover. Over about a year I set about, changing the cables, cleaning every connection, changing the solenoid, installing a rebuilt starter (the interface this time had a good amount of Packard gray paint, but otherwise clean, it went back together clean metal), and then finally decided to jump the car just after a shutdown in the middle of the summer (110+F). With the second battery connected the car started readily. All the while I never thought the battery was the culprit because it was the first thing I changed . . . it was one of those modern AGM units that are in a case that looks like the OEM original . . . Willard in this case. I put in a NAPA 3E flooded lead/acid and the car has not had a reoccurrence of the 'hot start' problem.

If the engine cranking speed is 'normal' then I would look down the suggested 'vapor lock' path.

dp

Posted on: 2020/7/26 19:08
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Re: Fails to start warm
#5
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Wesley Boyer
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I'm not sure which way your trying to start your Packard (Gas Pedal, Push Button or Key) so I will only cover the Gas Pedal, that's the only one I use.
I also had a problem starting my Packards, since the Service Manual didn't cover this very well for the 47. After looking back though the older manuals I found this from the 1942 Service and ever since I haven't had any problems starting my Packards, Hot or Cold.
One thing I would add is when cold to press the pedal all the way to the floor and let up on the glass pedal, this resets the carb and maybe will put an extra bit of gas before cranking.
Hope this helps!
Wes

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Posted on: 2020/7/26 21:19
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Re: Fails to start warm
#6
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Paul E. Gallagher
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Can someone tell me how to test my coil? I have a cheap multi meter from HF.
What setting on the meter?
What results am I looking for from primary and secondary?

Should I test it warm since that is when I have trouble starting.?
Any other advise or cautions?

Posted on: 2020/7/27 6:42
'49 Deluxe Eight - 23rd Series
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Re: Fails to start warm
#7
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Owen_Dyneto
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Coil tests aren't known to be particularly reliable indicators of coil health. I'd suggest going to NAPA and just buying their replacement coil and installing it. If it doesn't solve the problem keep the old one in your car tool kit and some day you or someone else will be thankful you had a good spare.

Posted on: 2020/7/27 7:16
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Re: Fails to start warm
#8
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Paul E. Gallagher
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On the suggestion from Dave (Owen D.), I replaced the coil with the NAPA Echlin IC7 ($43.) They also had the cheaper model ($23.), but I went with the Echlin. I let the car warm up in the garage and it started easy and started after hot and after it sat a few minutes. I took it for a ride and it restarted fine.

This is my question: When I removed the old coil (Delco Remy #380 - 6 volt, I assume original to the car) I was careful to mark the negative and positive. It was opposite from what the forum and my wiring diagram showed. ( Wire to the distributor was on the negative.)

I debated this situation for awhile and decided to go with the way the wiring diagram shows, positive to the distributor. Obviously, the car ran fine.

Did I do this right? Why was the original coil hooked up the opposite way?

Posted on: 2020/7/29 11:05
'49 Deluxe Eight - 23rd Series
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Re: Fails to start warm
#9
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HH56
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Quote:
Why was the original coil hooked up the opposite way?

Could be sometime in the past the polarity was deliberately changed or more likely someone more used to working on later cars might have wired the coil in the way he thought was correct not realizing that Packard until 56 used a positive ground.

The coil works either way but for the strongest and most efficient spark which is one jumping from the hot center electrode to the colder side or shell electrode the coil needs to be hooked up the proper way. If your battery is now connected as positive ground then following the wiring diagrams is the way to go.

Posted on: 2020/7/29 12:51
Howard
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Re: Fails to start warm
#10
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Don
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How to start a heat soaked engine.

This works 100% of the time whenever I have had a car not start on a hot day and the engine is hot. Wesley Boyer posted it earlier as well. Here is a video of how it works, and an explanation from a young man who rebuilds carbs and does fine tuning. He also demonstrates it on video.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TexIGMLlgCk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Posted on: 2020/7/30 10:34
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