Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

I'm pretty new to the whole forum world, so if I did something wrong, inform me.

I bought a 1940 120 back in February, with the 282 being a boat anchor. As a result, when a set of post war 8s came up for sale in Warren, with an overdrive trans as well, I jumped on it despite no idea of displacement. 500 bucks later, it turns out I now have a 356 with the r11 Overdriven 3spd, and an early 359 with a '53 thunderbolt 288 head on it, out of an automatic car.

The research I've done online suggests the 359 would have rediculous compression with that head (9.38:1), but I've also been told directly that it'd have lower compression than stock. How can I determine for sure?

Educate me on the motors. I've read that the 356 is a really great engine, but I've not read particularly why. From what I've read, the 359 really sounds like the penultimate flathead 8. I've also been told the 359 had some variations, this is no. 907 cast in 53 so I'd imagine it's of the earliest rendition.

Which setup would be the least resistance (cost/effort) to get the car on the road? I would like to eventually have the 359 with the Overdrive manual be the final combo, but I want to get it running and driving asap, perfecting everything can come later.

The 356 has a distributor and water pump, the 359 does not. 359 would need converted to manual. Am missing starters, carbs and fuel pumps for both. I have some carbs that I can probably make work though.

I'm not too stuck on originality, and have to rewire the car anyway so I'm still up in the air on 6 vs 12v. Are there affordable versions of the missing bits that I can get from another vehicle or even Napa that will work? Anything from the 282 that would fit?

Would it be worth putting the 288 head on the 356 if I go that route? Not too keen on the 6 something cr, would like to have some milage to work with, but I don't want to have to run race gas either lol.

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I will be the first to add two cents worth. Unlike in Packards time, two cents is almost worthless these days but here goes.

The 356 is a great engine but was obsoleted after the 50 models. It was a smooth and for the time powerful engine but is one of the harder and more expensive to rebuild. Main reason being the crankshaft counterweights must be removed to do any work on the crank and require machine work to remove and reinstall. Dealing with the weights adds up to expensive shop time and a need for someone who understands what needs to be done working on the engine. if you should get one in need of any work keep that in mind. Some parts such as the hydraulic valve lifters are almost extinct so it is good used on those if you have a need for any. The lifters are expensive and getting hard to find. If the new engine does not come with the motor mount parts am not sure if the 282 front mount parts will bolt on the 356 block so that might also be something needed as would possibly be some front crossmember work due to different block lengths. Some years also used side stabilizing brackets on the 356 and those might need to be found.

The 359 uses the same block as the 9 main 327 but was bored and stroked for 54 so was a one year only engine. Machine work is not as involved as the 356 but since it was one year only engine some parts are getting hard to come by. The aluminum head in particular is hard to replace if the one on the engine is not usable. Cast iron heads can be substituted but that destroys the look exclusive to the 359 and also requires heads from specific years and models to avoid increasing the compression ratio so high it will be difficult if not impossible to eliminate the pinging. It may also need shorter studs or attention to threads under the nuts because the cast iron heads are not as deep. The 54 engine is also a side mount engine so you will need to find the parts to change from a side to front mount. Parts from a 48-50 288/327 block should bolt onto the front of the 359 but you would need to verify and again there would probably be some work needed on the front crossmember due to different block lengths from the 282.

Am sure others are much better versed in the details so hope they chime in.

You definitely don’t want to put a 356 into a 120 chassis as the springs would never support the weight! Also, as Howard pointed out, rebuilding a 356 is very costly. Keep in mind that the 1950 and earlier cars had a single motor mount at the front and two (one on either side) at the transmission while 1951-1954 was reversed with one on either side of the engine and a single one under the transmission so using a newer engine in the older car would mean re-engineering something to work. The 356 also had so much torque that it had an additional absorber device on one side. Surely you can find the proper 282 and save yourself a whole lot of grief in trying to make something else fit.

I would reconsider even trying to make those work... for c. 1939–1956, there tend to be a pretty abundant supply of parts and parts cars, including running engines. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but I digress. As you have seen, many times engines cost only $300–$500. If you locate a parts dealer, you may even be able to trade what you bought 1:1 for what you need. Even if not, you'll probably save more in time and effort than a yet addional engine would cost.

Same type of thing I say when people say I should swap a small block Chevy engine into my 55. Why do that when I could get a correct engine for the same price...

Just for completeness, this is the chart that shows what compression ratio results from mixing and matching various blocks and heads, on this site:

Compression ratios and head interchange, 288/327/356/359 blocks

This is Service Counselor details some of the changes required to swap in a 288/327/359 to a 356 with the mounts switched, probably would be more involved with a 282.

327 Service replacement for 356

I wanted to install a bigger motor, anyway. If it wasn't a 356 or 359 I probably would have gone with a flat cad. Fabrication and modification to fit I'm not afraid of.

I'm just looking for input on which to go with for now, and why it'd be the better choice of the two.

When I was hunting for an engine, I was offered a 359 that was already in a 120 so it's not like it's impossible.

With the 359 I'd need to get a front cover, flywheel& clutch assembly, distributor, fuel pump, and carb to make it work, and will eventually need to overcome the larger input shaft on the 356 trans when I put that in to get overdrive. 356 needs a water pump, carb, and fuel pump, and the drive shaft shortened to drop the whole thing in the car as is, and make linkages for the trans. Neither engine has a starter.

Some notes on the 356. The water pump is available (new) from Max Merritt or Kanter. The 1942 and post-war 356 takes a Carter 531S carburetor, they show up occasionally on e-bay. The pre-war (1940-1941) 356 used a Stromberg carburetor. The 356 used a 5-blade asymmetrical fan. The starter was the heavy-duty gear-reduction style (Auto-Lite Max). Be sitting down when you get a quote for a restored replacement. I bought a spare dual action fuel pump from Arthur Gould a few years ago... don't know if they still have any.

All else being equal, the 359 is significantly lighter and easier to rebuild, and since it has a manifold already set up for a 4-barrel carb, more powerful as well. According to the chart, there are a number of 288 heads which would fit, some would provide lower compression than stock and some higher compression. If the engine was running before at all successfully, it was probably the former. I have no idea, however, how hard it would be to adapt the 356 transmission to the 359, excepting that it must have been done in the past for service-replacement purposes. Kanter appears to have all the parts available for the "master rebuild kit" for the 359, so the pistons, etc. are still available from them, at least.

Good to know about the weight, I understand both of these engines are much heavier than the 288, so it might make the changes I'll need in the front less. as far as carburation goes, I have a 500 holly and several quadrajets that I'm sure I can make either engine run with. Eventually, I'll make custom intake and exhaust manifolds.

As far as adapting goes, I'm sure it's been done, but I haven't found someone who has to know exactly what to do. I know Packard sold a kit to put 9mb 327s in when replacement 356s ran out, and afaik the 359 is identical to the 327 in regards to trans attachment. I can't find a good description of what that kit or process was though, there was just a list of part numbers with brief descriptions.