Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

In the next few months we'll be looking at a 1941 Packard with hydraulic window controls. I can see metal hydraulic lines but the pump is missing. It needs the horizontal style pump and I believe it is mounted under the car on the frame rail. There is some sort of connection (Tee-possibly) under the drivers seat and I'm not sure what went there because there is a gap of about 3" between the two metal lines.
Other than the vent window all windows are non-operational.

Any info about who might have a pump or a diagram, testing procedure...etc. would be most appreciated. I would like to keep the car as close to original as possible.

Thanks in advance,

Bill

No ideas on where you might find a pump but I doubt it will be easy. Postwar pumps are different and even with the pumps used by other postwar mfgs being almost identical, the postwar pumps can also be hard to find. If you do find something Hydro-E-Lectric MIGHT be willing or able to work on it as they do work on the postwar type. I have not checked prewar cylinder availability but they do repro the postwar cylinders. No idea if they would be able to supply the prewar cylinders and there is a good chance yours will not be in great shape.

The prewar system, pump and operation is quite different from the postwar hydraulic windows in that the prewar pump was reversible and ran both directions to hydraulically operate the window both up and down. Pump sent fluid from the storage tank to push the window up and sucked it back out along with using a spring to assist in lowering. Postwar pumps ran one direction to push the window up with only a spring and gravity being used to lower them.

There are a few prewar service letter articles that covered various parts of the windows. There is a wiring diagram and theory of operation covered in a couple of them. You might get a few troubleshooting tips reading thru the others. The service letters can be downloaded from the literature archive. Go to the 37-42 BODY category and toward the bottom of the page there are 6 articles pertaining to the windows.

No idea on what the plumbing under the seat might be for unless it is just a junction point for the tubing going to windows. I could be wrong but don't believe the hydraulic power seat that was usually part of the postwar window system was available in prewar models.

Many years ago a very good friend restored a 42 formal sedan. The car was sold to Custom Auto then resold and went east and I am sure I have seen it on this website. Clarence replaced the hydraulic system with 6 volt electric lifts from a Mercury as I remember. He found that the original pump unrepairable and after several trips to Hershey gave up and went electric.

There is at least one long-time vendor/rebuilder for hydraulic window lifts, convertible tops, and power seats. I think they go by the name Hydro E Lectric. Hemmings has ads, and Packard Club publications may also. Those systems work very well, and I would avoid changing one to anything else.

Thanks much for the info.
I'll download and look at all the info before moving ahead. I have a used GM convertible top lift but it is 12V. I will contact Hydro-electric and see what they might offer in terms of product or ideas. Conservation of the car is my number one priority.
We have lots of other projects before tackling this one as I'm always looking ahead to avoid any problems.
The car was owned by Mrs. Elizabeth (Bess) Packard and we have it proudly displayed at the National Packard Museum in Warren, Ohio




thanks much,

Bill

Cadillac used a 6 volt hydro system through 1952. It used brake fluid.

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Hi Bill (Wmsue), my photo may not be representative, but the hydraulic oil brake fluid expansion tank is mounted under the driver's seat on a frame cross member that runs behind the battery box. However, this only feeds the pump via an unbranched line.
When we talk about a T-piece, we can actually only mean the supply line that leads from the hydraulic pump to a T-piece. From there one line leads to the front doors and the other to the rear doors.
Since it has been a decade and a half since I dealt with the topic, my memories may no longer be helpful.

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Packards used brake fluid too (at least in the late ‘40s and ‘50s) but I’ve always used automatic transmission fluid which is also what Hydro-Electric recommends.

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Packard used brake fluid thru 54 but the prewar pumps are completely different than those Packard, Cadillac, Buick, etc etc used postwar. I don't know who made the Packard horizontal prewar pumps but those worked with a closed system having a separate sealed reservoir tank. I expect a relatively few cars were equipped with power windows so those pumps will probably be hard to find. Postwar, I believe the vertical open to atmosphere pumps with the built in reservoir as part of the pump that Packard used were made by Dura. GM probably used the similar Moraine pump and the hydraulic window regulator setups for all mfgs were about the same. Looking in a Motors Manual, Hudson used a horizontal pump under the floor for their convertible but no idea how similar it might have been to the prewar Packard pump.

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The PackardInfo member Dave (JD in KC) would be a great source of information. At -> one point he was up to his neck in the hydraulic pump.

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Don (Packard Don) & Howard (HH56) thank you, I have corrected my misinformation.