Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

The convertible top on the Caribbean is making me nuts. The top will drop without a problem but when it comes to raising it, it will not go up without assist. This is a new glitch. I replaced all the pieces during the restoration and it previously operated smoothly.
I thought that it might need fluid but that did not help.
I guess the fact that the top has not been raised or lowered regularly might be part of the problem but same is true with my other and prior ragtops…all have been fitted with parts from Hydro E Lectric.
Before I order a new pump, does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks
RJR

Can you disconnect the mechanism and move it up-and-down by hand? It might be obvious where it's binding.

Does not seem to be issue of binding….retracts smoothly. It will go up if someone is holding the button down and i do manual assist.
Not something that you would want if you were alone and had reason to raise the top .
It functioned perfectly before but the car gets little use.
Was just curious if anyone had a top motor start to fail.
I thought that maybe the battery was low or generator output did not have enough juice but same result with charger attached at :40:@mps.

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Raising and lowering a convertible top often has little to do with how well it will operate. But yes, like most automotive systems, it is wise to cycle it periodically. But the most important thing is to properly maintain the top and power mechanisms.

Was this system completely flushed and filled when assembled?
Was this system burped?

Raising the top is always the time when the power hydraulic system is stressed the most. So yes, it makes sense that problems raising are more likely than lowering.

What kind of hydraulic lines do you presently have fitted between the pump and the rams? IF the lines are the plastic type you can see through, have someone operate the top switch while you observe the lines.
• Check for bubbles
• Check for air pockets
• Check for continuous fluid on a raise cycle.
• IF A V-8 PACKARD... be sure to have transmission fluid in the system rather than brake fluid.
• Check closely for leaks in ram seals, reservoir, pump itself.

IF you still have old rubber hydraulic lines obviously you won't be able to perform these steps... so check the rams with your top in the raised position, Disconnect the rods from the topstack frame and (being prepared with catch pans) check your lines individually.

IF no bubbles or air pockets,:
• check reservoir for fullness, clean, no blockages.
• Disconnect shiny rods on rams from the topstack frame...
• Have someone operate the switch while you observe BOTH rams and rods. Rods should BOTH extend and retract evenly. IF not, you either have a blocked line, bad seal, or defective ram.
• IF BOTH RAM RODS malfunction during RAISE or LOWER cycles, the problem is either in the pump or lines of BOTH rams are defective.

IF you are not getting pumping or suction at each line end– WITH a properly filled reservoir– (OR uneven suction) then the problems are in the lines. Replace them ALL.

IF you are getting no pumping or suction OR sporadic at all found connections, then the problem is the pump. Replace it.


AND...


ALWAYS make certain that your shiny rods on the rams indeed are clean, shiny and no rust! Rust tears rubber seals. Dirt can do likewise.

NEVER, EVER attempt to operate your convertible top by hand. This design was counterbalanced and meant to operate as such. Furthermore, pressure in the wrong positions can cause segments of the frame to crack, bind or completely snap off. The material of these segments is brittle and does not lend itself well to being welded once broken. Don't do it!

Procedures for proper power convertible top were listed some time ago in the Packard Club's Cormorant News Bulletin.

And before arbitrarily replacing the pump you might also check pressures as described on page 28 in the body section of the 55-6 service manual.

Quote:

Important Note: The ancient factory service manual specifications may not be applicable if newer components like pump or plastic lines are presently installed.

Leeedy and.Howard— As usual you give sound advise and I thank you for your imput .
The top operation is confusing me since it worked fine for years …granted that the cars has had limited use and raising and lowering the top has probably been limited to a few times each year that the car comes out from under the car cover.

During the rebuild I purchased all new parts …rams, lines and pump from Hydro E Lectric which has supplied the same parts for numerous convertibles that I own or have owned over the years.
Their instructions were followed during this installation and aside from my initial error in having the top fitting to the rear of the lift cylinder on the passenger side reversed which created a serious problem reviewed here a number of years ago ( the fitting on the passengers side lift cylinder impacted the wheel well and would not alllow the roof to drop into the boot ), it functioned well.

I will go back over your suggestions and hope that I do not need to change the pump. I have left a message with Hydro E Lectric and will let you know their response.

I used to enjoy crawling under dash boards and lying in trunks but age makes those postures less tolerable.

Please keep us updated on what happens with your top situation. I have the exact same issue as you.

and Leeedy, thank you for your testing outlines above. I plan on checking the pump pressure test but will do what you mentioned above to narrow down my issue

Quote:

You are very welcome.

In addition to my OEM work on new cars in the auto industry, I was also part owner of an automotive trim shop. We restored lots of cars. I attended lots of trim industry conventions. I was also good friends with the Godfather of convertibles, Nat Danas, who published Auto Trim News. And I was also good friends with Mark Robbins and the Robbins family that owned and operated Robbins Auto Top Company. And I was friends with George Westmoreland of Acme Auto Headlining Company.

Our shop replaced hundreds of convertible tops and convertible top components.

I base my advice to you on my personal and professional experience.

Here I am in an old photo of the successful completion of a cycle test of one million cycles of a Mazda Miata folding top with tempered glass window. This cycle test was conducted at Dura Corporation in Michigan. The tempered glass window was my idea. By the way, my friend R. Curtis Fishbach of DURA CORPORATION is also the former owner of the surviving Packard Torsion-Level display chassis that now resides at the Packard Proving Grounds. I believe that Dura also helped Packard develop and engineer the convertible tops on Caribbeans.

Gentlemen- I got to spend the weekend squatting in the trunk of the Caribbean. Really do not recall the experience being so painful a decade ago.
The pump got changed and the top now goes up and down again.
The swap was a little more complicated than I expected..The mounting brackets on the new pump were spaced around six inches wider than the one I replaced which took a while I also had to remove and replace the socket on the wiring harness that got damaged during the removal .

I followed the instructions that came with the pump and noticed one thing that I do not remember from prior installations …..the pump supplier directs that the fill plug not be reinstalled until the top has gone through 5-6 cycles and the fluid level stays at the edge fill plug.
As best I recall, we always replaced the plug between cycles. I guess it makes sense to keep it open to allow air to escape..

Hope this helps someone.