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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
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Packard Don
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Quote:
I have replacement cylinders for all the other wheels but I didn't end up replacing because the ones on the car were dry and clean.


That's like judging a book by its cover. Being dry could also mean that the pistons are seized or that the hoses have collapsed internally and are not giving pressure to the cylinders. On something important as brakes, you should KNOW the condition and not simply guess or base it on what a previous owner said.

Posted on: Yesterday 13:28
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
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kevinpackard
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Riki - I don't have a press but I know guys that do. So I should be able to get my hands on the proper tools when that time comes.

Don - good point. I know the whole brake system was rebuilt, with all new components from front to rear, when Bob owned it before. But I believe most of that work was done 10-15 years ago. I'd have to check the receipts to be positive. Replacing the other cylinders isn't the end of the world and would give piece of mind. I was very pleased with how much better the brakes were after I bled and adjusted.

Posted on: Yesterday 13:52
Kevin

1954 Clipper Super Panama | Registry | Project Blog
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
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Pgh Ultramatic
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Quote:

kevinpackard wrote:
But I believe most of that work was done 10-15 years ago.


Same with my 400 and that's why I'm redoing them.

Posted on: Yesterday 14:02
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
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56Clippers
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Quote:

kevinpackard wrote:

2.) The rear of the car seems to raise slightly when brakes are applied, probably the natural movement/momentum from braking. It is not raised to the limit, maybe only an inch or so up, but enough to point the headlights towards the ground. After that it does not level itself even with the brake off. When put in P or N the TL kicks in like normal and lowers the rear.

3.) I have replacement cylinders for all the other wheels but I didn't end up replacing because the ones on the car were dry and clean. I did not bleed all four corners when I replaced the other cylinder. Just the rears. Do you think it would make that much of a difference if I replaced all the cylinders?

5.) I did not switch the TL off on my quick test drive last night. Once I sort the heater hoses I'll drive it again and report back. I'm hoping it's not a bushing issue because I'm really not excited about tackling that.


2. Braking dive is a natural dynamic action of vehicles with a suspension.
So if you start with a level car and put it in H, D, or L, go forward, then stop, when you continue forward the car will no longer be level but will remain at the maximum attitude achieved during the stop.
If you execute multiple stops will the attitude continue to increase?

If the headlights are pointing at the ground, have you checked the aim of the headlights? The aim as defined on page 45 of the electrical section (8) of the service manual is measured 25 feet from the car so the angle would have to change significantly to have "the headlights only illuminate 15 feet in front of the car". We need a better frame of reference to use headlight illumination as a measurement.

It should level in any gear. If the difference between leveling and not leveling is the gear you are in, check to see of there is an interruption in the power into the control box.
Next it would be testing the ground signal to the Down limit switch (Blue and Yellow) to make sure the delay switch and limit switch are working. With eh condition of the Up limit switch, you may want to look at the Down limit switch. You have been moving those wires around a bit.

3. You know that there is hydraulic pressure in the rear line as the rear passenger wheel locks. Your inspection of the other three wheel cylinders was that they looked dry. The pistons might not be moving well, far enough, or some not at all. With the price of wheel cylinders it seems to me to be worth it for the most important function. I can lock all four wheels on mine. Of course I'm used to extreme and threshold braking from my years n the racetrack. Someone here in a different thread described his as feeling like they would put him through the windshield.

Posted on: Yesterday 20:58
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
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Pgh Ultramatic
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The other week I was driving with Ross in his 51 and he was showing it off a bit. On the impromptu stopping test, the tires gave off a good squeal, so I'm thinking we locked the rears. And that's a car with MANUAL brakes.

The BTV units, as we know, are so sensitive that you can command max brake pressure almost by accident, so I'd think you could lock at least both rears.

Posted on: Yesterday 21:29
1955 400 | Registry | Project Blog
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
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TxGoat
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Some "brake dive" is normal. If it is excessive, the problem could be worn shock absorbers, front, rear, or both, weak front springs, or dry or weak rear springs. A lack of lubrication of front and rear suspension parts, including leaf springs, can cause excess stiffness, with will cause issues.

Too much friction in suspension parts will cause ride, stance, and handling issues and would probably interfere with any kind of automatic ride leveling system.

Posted on: Yesterday 21:41
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Re: Mojave Tan - A 1956 400 Saga
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Ross
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The essence of Torsion Level (and any other interconnected suspension system) is to give the effect of suspending the car at its center of gravity rather than at points far removed from the CG. Think balancing a pencil on your finger.That is what gives the pitch-free ride within certain practical constraints and also necessitates the leveling system to compensate for the shifting of the CG as loads and passengers are introduced.

The immediate corollary is that without some hysteresis built into the system, the car will seesaw from end to end. Think trying to run around your house with a pencil balanced on your finger. That is why having the bushings in a TL car in good shape is so important. They work just like twisting the flesh on your finger--they want to return to the neutral position and thus stabilize the system. The usual symptom of bad bushings is the leveler running very frequently as the car settles first to one end then the other. My 56 Clipper had all new bushings and in an afternoon of running errands might level once or twice.

To your symptoms: The brake light switch is purposed to turn the leveler off while braking; if your car perchance has one of the VW three-prong brake light switches instead of an original (switch has blades rather than pins for connection) the normal residual pressure in the brake system will keep the leveler turned off even though the brake lights go on and off normally. Eventually the pressure dies down and the leveler works again. I don't use the VW switches any more and substitute a GM mechanical switch that clamps to the steering column and presses against the brake pedal shank.

The second important item is that the front shocks in particular can not have a strong rebound action or they will pull the front of the car down as you drive--especially on bumpy roads. This leads to a battle between the leveler and the shocks, AND if you have the VW switch you will be nose down most of the time. No fun.

Posted on: Today 7:23
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