Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Also notice that mseanowen indicates a Carter AFB (not WCFB) is installed on the car.

First, let me apologize for saying a Carter AFB. I guess the 14+ hours a day, seven days a week are taking their toll on me. It is a Carter WCFB.

I dug through my hard drive and found one rather poor picture taken just after I bought the it (the car is cleaned up and repainted now) showing the AC compressor and oil filter. As you can see, the filter mounts towards the curbside, just about in line with the valve cover. It has rubber lines instead of steel, very well made, with crimped fittings. They are showing their age and I intend to replace them someday if I ever get home. Everything looks as if it was made for the car and nothing about the installation seems pieced together.

I have never had the heads off the compressor and I don't know how many cylinders it has. I would assume 4, but I am not an authority. The compressor turns freely, but I am afraid to charge it up to see what happens. I didn't want to run the old thing and have it lock up. It looks better to me than a new Sanden, even if it doesn't have a charge in it.
I would agree that the dealer may have changed the air filter. Anybody else have a similar setup?

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Since the thread is already off track, any idea what kind of trunk AC unit you have--brand name or anything? A source of questions as that could be either all aftermarket or one authorized by Packard, possibly supplied by Studebaker and installed by the dealer. When you're safely home, some pictures of the complete setup and control would sure be appreciated.

The mount appears to be aftermarket but possibly a later factory setup. There has been some discussion about that here. Early factory units had the compressor and mount integral with the mount actually forming the bottom half of compressor crankcase. Later units may be that type you have with the separate compressor.

It is a 4 cylinder compressor and if you take it apart, be advised there appears to be no new head gaskets available unless you can make your own out of the proper materials and what is that type material is a good question. It's something special because of the heat and pressure and apparently not found in ordinary gasket material. The ones we tried to make out of a high pressure rated fiber material didn't last long at all. There are 2 on each side and are a bit complicated to cut. Reed valves are shot on both of my compressors and on other posters units as well. They also appear to not be available anywhere. Not sure about the crankshaft seals. They were still available a while back.

A few years ago, a poster mentioned possibly Classic Air in Texas could and would rebuild them but I don't know that to be fact. They don't advertise it as one they work on and at one time they claimed to have no parts. They do have a new info/request form though so may be one of those we make parts but not for retail sale things.

Here are V8 factory dash installs. Note the large blower on the drivers side. 55-6 essentially the same except later hose with noise mufflers vs early metal tube without and the mount question. The interesting part on second pict is the gold compressor like yours instead of black but with the early tubes. Maybe compressor was changed. Bottom picture is the cast integral mount.

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Here are two photos of an AC installation on a '55 400.

(o{I}o)

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Oh well, back to mundane things like air filter assemblies:

Everybody talkin' 'bout "Carter air cleaners" and "Rochester air cleaners" when, in the second of HH56's posted photographs. the one of the "dual snorkel" air cleaner on the air conditioned '55 400 with single carb the decal CLEARLY INDICATES THAT THIS IS AN "AC" (not 'air conditioning' but as in AC/DELCO) manufactured unit. We are talking about an accessory here, folks, that Packard could spec one way or another depending on the whims of purchasing, manufacturing, or what the weather looked like that day.

Please, the "proper" air cleaner is one that fits (as mseanowen points out) and preferably the same style as came with the car, regardless of type of carburetor, accessories such as air conditioning, or the model or year of the car. Heck, these same units (as mentioned earlier about Chevy) could be on all sorts of makes of cars from the era.

Maybe somebody at a show with a "points" book could argue otherwise, but I really doubt it.

Sorry to be blunt, but that's the facts as I see 'em. I do trust, though, that this post will be recognized as "on-topic"?

Politely beg to differ. Air filters were not an accessory. And I believe when folks spoke of a Carter or Rochester air filter, they were referring to the make of carburetor on which it was mounted, not the manufacturer of the filter itself. The Houdaille unit for 56 Clipper w/Carter 4-bbl was the only exception to sourcing from AC Div. of GM, as far as I know.

PS - and as desperate as Packard was in 1956 for $, I don't think they went on whimsical shopping sprees for subsitute parts.

Owen,

Respectfully disagree.

From your post:

Quote:
My point exactly, these parts were sourced and were available, (as pointed out earlier regarding the single inlet unit shared with Chevy), to all manufacturers who wanted them.

I did not mean to imply that Packard actually went on a "shopping spree," only that they, and other manufacturers COULD have, and as you point out Packard did in at least one instance: the "Houdaille" unit. Wow, quite a brand name. Did they get them in France or something?

Kidding aside, I'm dead serious about this debate being about apples, oranges, and grapefruit. The "correct" air cleaner is a match to the one that came with the car, which obviously varied during manufacture and was not set in corporate stone. Obviously dealerships could swap out the sexier dual snorkel unit for the single snout.

I also did not mean to imply that the air cleaners' manufacture was mistakenly attributed to the makers of carburetors Carter or Rochester carbs. The people posting these comments probably meant that the vehicles with these carbs "came with" (generally) one or the other type of air cleaner unit.

I was just pointing out, to avoid further devolving the discussion, that these parts were indeed manufactured by outside suppliers, but not by Carter or Rochester. And that Carter or Rochester, to my knowledge at least, did not REQUIRE one or the other type of air cleaner, but (often or usually) "came with" a particular one (Packards somewhat variable choice), which was almost invariably supplied by AC Delco, as your post indicates was the case with one notable exception.

Thank you and good night.

Is the following statement correct?

Strictly in terms of FITING, any air cleaner that will fit the Carter WCFB will also fit the Rochester 4GC as used by Packard and Clipper 1955-1956 V8's.

Edit: i do not have a 4GC here to test an air cleaner fit with.

The "correct" air cleaner is a match to the one that came with the car, which obviously varied during manufacture and was not set in corporate stone.

Not to prolong this unduly, but are you saying that Packards left the factory with air filters other than the type specified in the parts book? I'd be curious to know what evidence supports this?

There's no doubt that the air cleaners used on these cars were off-the-shelf units that came from third-party vendors. The practice goes way back with all manner of components, which likely is why Alfred Sloan went on a "shopping spree" decades earlier - acquiring suppliers to build GM up, vertically. Heck, in the 1980s, Ford and Chrysler were purchasing recirculating-ball type steering gears and p/s pumps for their RWD vehicles from GM's Saginaw Division. Then, open the hood of any Chrysler product from the 1980s, and you'll find all sorts of emissions devices with the GM's Rochester Products logo.

Yet, study the 55-56 Packard parts book, Gr. 9.102 and you'll see that specific air cleaners correlate to specific chassis, which came with specific carburetors - EXCEPT in the case of the Hershey-Houdaille air cleaner (more on that later). Of course, engineering specification of an air cleaner had as much to do with underhood clearances as well as the carb upon which it would rest, but there's no evidence to suggest that Packard ever played mix-n-match with air cleaners in the course of production. Running changes were usually well-documented - in newsletters or bulletins, if not the parts book. Although we've seen some abberations in the use of other materials in production for other aspects of the cars, the "last days in the bunker" was a relatively short-lived event. What happened after the car left the plant and in the 55+ years since production of these cars ended is a whole 'nuther matter.

Meanwhile, AC-Delco is little more than a marketing operation of GM these days, but only came into existence in 1974, as a merger of AC Spark Plugs and United Delco (formerly United Motors). It was the old AC Spark Plugs Division that supplied the dual-scoop round and bat-wing air cleaners. It should really come as no surprise, then, to find the dual scoop air clean on Olds-Buck-Cadillac models and the snorkel type air cleaner on Chevies of the period. The true bat-wing even found its way onto a Chrysler in one year.

I'm not sure who supplied the other style air cleaners used on Carter 4-bbl. carbs.

As I noted previously (in the bat-wing thread), the only only references I could find to a Hershey-Houdaille air cleaners were oil-bath units with ag and military applications, which suggests a heavy-duty type. I've never personally gone so deep as to identify one as such on any Packard.

It's a shame that Packard didn't visually document the air cleaner types. I wonder what the PI judging manual shows, if anything.