Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Well, that Packard did NOT roll out of 1580 East Grand Blvd. with that aftermarket radio antenna - Packard had a special design for the antenna mount that was unique to 1940 only. So it has a radio antenna, then why is there a radio delete plate in the dash?

If this is "Just Restored" then why not have a radio? Or eliminate the incorrect antenna altogether?

If the engine bay photos were turned just a bit more forward you might be able to see if the thermostatic mechanism for grille louvers found in senior cars are in place.

IMHO the 1940 cars are much easier to fake as senior cars as they did not have all the extra trim pieces the 1941 senior cars had, e.g. different bumpers, different tail lights, One-Sixty badging, etc.

You can see why there is a temptation to fake these cars by reviewing the NADA Pricing Guidelines:

Low condition: 120 = $30,300 160 = $53,300
Average condition: 120 = $59,000 160 = $104,800
High condition: 120 = $126,500 160 = $187,200

The car is in Lake Oswego, OR. Wonder if JoeSantana has seen it?

West, thanks for the clarification on the air filter. In reading further I see that the oil bath air cleaner was an option on the seniors in 1940 and became standard equipment on the 160/180 for 1941.

This post has peaked my interest. If the car is not a 160, then what was the original car?

Other than the vent windows, what are the other giveaways?

Regards,
Steve P

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There is only one car they could be working with: a 1940 model 120 convertible sedan. That is an 1801, body style 1379 as opposed the real senior car an 1803, body style 1377.

As I said above I think the 1940 model is easier to "fake" as a senior car than the 1941 model.

The obvious errors have already been mentioned. 120 cars have push/pull vent windows - the 160/180 cars have a window crank. 120 cars have fixed open grille louvers - 160/180 cars have moveable grille louvers.

Other than that you need very detailed photos or crawl under the car yourself.

IMHO, this car has too many issues going on with it to be legitimately called a "senior" car.

EDIT: The reason I say a 120 convertible sedan is the base car instead of a SEDAN is because the rear doors of a sedan are the "suicide" or rear hinge variety. Whereas, the on convertible sedan the rear door has a front hinge. It would be MUCH more difficult to whack the top off a sedan and then source and fit correct rear doors - plus the removable "B" pillar.

I was looking at the shape of the front fender openings for the side mounts, particularly the rear portion where it comes up from the running boards to the tire cover. It is an elegant curve. Is the shape of this the same for the senior and junior cars? I am under the impression the seniors differ. If so, were the front fenders added?

(o{}o)

Looking at the photos stevep516 posted, I see a different shape of the back part of the front fender. The eBay car looks to have senior front fenders. The 120 convertible sedan steve posted has a different shape, it just drops off to the running board instead of having the curved kick-up shape.

Thank you Roger,
Based on what I'm reading here, the attached car being sold as a "160" is really a "120".

Thanks,
Steve P

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Un-oh! That is a dead give-away; the dreaded, missing vent window crank.

I own a 1941 160 convertible sedan and know that car. I am not as certain on some details for the 1940 model. But in your photos the running board trim lacks metal trim strips; at least the eBay car had that. IIRC, a senior car should have the metal strips.

Do you have any more photos you'd care to share about this car?

Hi

Definitely, buyer beware! Best check the engine serial to see what year it really is. Is it possible to mate a 356 directly to the 120 transmission?

Maybe being too critical but if that is leather upholstery, its a great job of dye and finishing to make it look like cheap vinyl!

When there's a extra dollar to be made with a bit of fakery.......poor human nature takes over.

Steve

Most fakes are accomplished by taking all the parts needed from a real 180/160 parts car. Any 160 convertible with a new serial number tag should be suspect. I, too, was searching for the radiator thermostat on the ebay car.

As these cars get to be more and more valuable, I suspect that the "dreaded missing window crank" telltale will slowly disappear as well. That's why it's so important to have the original serial number tag.

I agree West, although there is always the remote possibility the "original" VN tag could be from a scrapped but authentic car - this indeed has happened before.

There is a list of the other (often very subtle and not easy to spot) differences between a true 160 and a knock-off from a 120; the list has been kept very private and confidential for fear that publicizing it would do nothing but help those who make such mongrels.

As always when buying a higher value Packard, buyer beware; ask a lot of questions and get advice and personal review from those who know the model the best.