Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

If you don't want a crap part, then don't buy the cheapest part. It really just comes down to that regardless of country of origin.

It can't be said much better. That holds true for anything bought today. I just retired from a large Japanese company that builds some absolute top of the line award winning advanced equipment guaranteed to handle throughput as fast as you could push them thru but is priced accordingly-- and also equipment that was made less robust and meant for an office or much smaller volume facility, advertised as such and also priced accordingly. It's amazing how many large facilities only look at a dollar sign, buy cheap as they can, and then are unhappy because something can't go 24/7.

One thing Fred brought up is just because a company has an American name doesn't mean it was made here. One of our competitors is a large American multinational 2 letter abbreviated company and almost all of their equipment is now made elsewhere--some in a factory in the same town and country ours was made. The customer perception is because of the name it is all still made at a large facility in the midwest.

Very true. I have a Craftsman air compressor that I bought about 10 years ago that is holding up rather well, the tank is made in USA but the compressor is made in China. The compressor has started to make more noise than usual these past months, and it's maintained regularly.

Amen there. I noticed on the el cheapo (but surprisingly working great) sand blast cabinet from summit ($150 clearance) and the parts washer from tractor supply, that they were both available, as clearly the same unit, all cheaply made, at summit, tractor supply, and harbor freight.

Even though they were obviously the same items, they were boxed from totally different companies! So, is it a manufacturer using different names (just shady business practice) or a white box manufacturer selling tools to other tool brands? (Shady for the people reselling them as their own)?

I knew i was buying cheap tools, but one is basically a sink and the other two air hoses in a box. Figured i could fix em when they break.

As for the gear mark question:

I have what appears to very much be an original chain set from the 50 288 with the mark on the teeth, and what appears to be an original chain set from the 53 327 with the mark on the teeth.

Does it matter? Nope, especially since balance doesn't rub there, just mates up against it.

As for import parts being junk, they don't always pay attention to detail. My repop Z bar/swivel assembly for my 71 pontiac had slop in it from the factory that a wore out one didn't even have. My clutch release still isn't right.

I was told that a stant use made thermostat will fail open but that the dollar cheaper chinese one will fail closed. I DIDN'T VERIFY THAT IT WAS TRUE AND THAT'S WHERE THEY WERE MADE. Just what my parts guy said.

I'm sure it comes down to finding the cheapest place to make something vs the country of origin, but i'm guessing it's easy to find said places in developing nations like china. (Don't think china is "developing"? Read about their garbage problem, or that info is so stiffled that a lot of chinese don't know about Tiananmen Square - how can business and mfrg be cutting edge in a place like that?)

As it sits, the chain does seem to ride slightly high on the sprockets, but both evenly and the set looks like it will work well. I'm sure i'll be happy with it.

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As things go the word "slightly" should be changed to excessively. If you look at your Chinese chain you will find that the problem is that when the chain is curved around the crank gear the links spread too much making them too wide to properly fit the gear. Remember the kid thing with the church, the steeple, open the door and see all the people?? Place your fingers together with your finger tips facing you. Open the door all the way and note what happens to your finger tips as you close it. Your finger tips get farther apart. This is what happens to the effective size of the teeth that have to mate with the gear teeth when you wrap the chain around. At that diameter the chain teeth do not correctly match the crank gear teeth. The teeth will wear off very rapidly possibly dumping metal particles down into the oil pan( not a good thing). Seems I remember in the past the set was referred to as a matched set.

The timing set I bought was a mixed set. The chain and the cam gear were Chinese. The crank gear looked to be NOS. The chain seemed to fit the chinese cam gear but not the NOS crank gear. Maybe the Chinese chain will fit a chinese crank gear?

To Fred, It has been so long since I bought the timing set I can't remember who I bought it from. That doesn't matter anyway. What I am talking about is the quality of Chinese made parts. I have had everything from Chinese made galvanized water pipe that sprung leaks through the wall of the pipe in less than 5 years to wheel cylinders in a TRW box where the casting said "made in China" leaking after about one year of service. You are right about good name brand American companies selling this junk. Seems like a sell out to me. I would rather see companies like TRW and Craftsman go out of business rather than bow to the chinese.

The items did all come packaged separately and as you described with the chain and cam marked "made in china".

If you look at the picture, you can tell that it rides at that height evenly on both gears which makes me feel that it's fitting as intended on both or not fitting on either (i'm leaning towards the first). Also, when i rotate it around 10 times, the marks still line up which means the set is keeping the engine in time, which is what matters to me. So riding excessively high doesn't seem to apply. It's still a better option than my old stretched set, now that I've seen how much it has stretched compared to new.

If you like, i can put the old set(s) on a table and stretch it and we can see where the chain rides and then take a straight on shot of the installed set and we can visually compare the ride height. I have to assume, however, if Kanter has been selling sets that fall apart or don't work, we would have heard about it by now. I can't be the only one installing a new timing set in the last 5 years.

And lastly, if i don't get the set from Kanter, who else sells them? Sounds like i'm down on slim options.

I vaguely recall one other thread where new manufacture timing chains were of concern on a 288/327. I am aware of another specific instance where a new manufacture 37-39 Super 8 timing chain was worse than a worn original, but I do NOT recall where either one was sourced. That said, I'm sure I have a NOS or USA manufactured (old) NORS chain available should you wish to go that route. 20% less than whatever MM or "K"mart price, whichever is less. I'm not in business and not trying to take business from those that are, I just have a few excess parts from when I buy a pile to get what I want. DAF

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That's the problem you run into when you buy "Chinackard" parts.

Ok took a pic of the face and end of the parts.

First thing i noticed was, hey, i was wrong. The 2 OEM sprockets i have have the timing mark on the face where the balancer touches.

Second thing i noticed is that i'm takinhttps://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/registry/g quite a while to do a simple job. Feeling lazy.

Third is that the replacement chain doesn't LOOK like it sits all the way in the sprockets but neither does the OEM chain.

Fourth, the OEM chain you can't see down from the top and see the teeth. On the replacement chain you can see the teeth and they do look to be all the way up in the chain.

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if u're happy with the fit of the timing set then go ahead and run it. We'll see.

When will u have the car back on the road?????
How many miles per year do u plan to drive the car????
Is there any ez way to check chain tension on the Packard 8 without removal of balancer or cover??????

e.g. on the V8's the chain can be checked thru the fuel pump hole after the fuel pump is removed. Not easy to do but it can be checked that way whenever fuel pump is removed.

Side note:

1. A general q&d check of chain wear and quality can be accomplished by grasping the chain, one end in the left hand and the other end in the rite hand. Twist it forward away from u and backward toward u. Compare that to a known good or new chain.

2. Another method is to stand the chain up on a flat surface and with one hand twist it from side-to-side. Compare to a known good chain.

A third way is to grap the chain in each hand as in #1 above and laying on a flat surface and compress the chain toward the center and stretch it away from the center of the chain. THis tests how much SLOP there is in each link and how much wear there is in the pivots.

To CORTCOMP:

I see you took some time to examine what has been said by you and others and you have obviously learned a lot. There have been several who said the chian/sprockets were no good because the chain did not seat at the bottom of the sprocket. As you found out, IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO.

Yes,as you found, the O is on the face of the crank sprocket on the originals and ours ( AND SO INDICATED ON THE ORIGINAL PACKARD BLUEPRINT WE USED TO MAKE IT). It is the same on Buicks, Lincolns, Caddy, etc etc despite teh fact that others say it's not. We have a rather complete set of NOS sprockets to prove it, others must have a poor memory.

I see some members have told you how to determine if a chain is worn out (stretched) with it on a bench. If it were only so easy. Without sophisticated equipment the only way to tell is to install it with NEW SPROCKETS and see if it is loose/floppy (the infamous thumb test).

Early car chains were up to 2 inches wide and wore out soon, as Packards got newer the chains got narrower because the metallurgy and oils improved. Modern V8's (80's) I've taken apert with 100,000 miles still have good chains and some have sprockets with nylon teeth

You've noted a difference in construction of the orig and our replacement, again a "lighter" construction chain is used adn is superior to the original due to improved metallurgy. Think cotton cord tires from the 30's vs. steel belted radials, which will last longer, which is safer??

Much of the information given on this subject, to be polite, has been ill advised sowing doubts and fears into some readers. We are the only source, I believe, of these replacement sets and have been selling them for 20+ years We have sold well over 1000 sets and with our lifetiem warrantee have had no claims.

The man hours spent on writing and reading these 8 pages could restore the entire drive train of a '53 300, the '53 400 with 4 more main bearings would take and extra 5 minutes (equivalent to 2 more paragraphs)

Whew!!

Fred Kanter