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New Quaker State Oil
#1
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BigKev
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According to the review, it is supposed to have elevated levels of ZDDP which is being targeted at Classic Cars and flat tappet motors.

http://mustangs.about.com/od/accessories/fr/Quaker-State-Defy.htm

Posted on: 2012/6/9 21:01
-BigKev


1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog

1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog
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Re: New Quaker State Oil
#2
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Randy Berger
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Although I am from the Quaker State, I don't like their oil from years of experience.

Posted on: 2012/6/9 21:50
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Re: New Quaker State Oil
#3
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Tim Cole
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1400 parts per million ZDDP is .14%. That's almost a trace amount. I don't know if the stuff is any good, but my suspicion is that it's just a cheap anti-wear agent the same way tetra ethyl lead was a cheap anti-knock compound.

This whole ZDDP thing came about because supposedly the Cadillac V-8 has a bronze oil pump gear and they were falling apart. Well, why not plastic then. How about paper? That is no way to build an engine and if the oil pressure is anything above spec - 30 psi - then that could blow the darn thing up as well.

I think the same result could be had by using Lucas or any of the other additives like Rislone (which Packard authorized).

As for flat tappets most motors today use them, along with aluminum bearings and all sorts of cheap materials and chinsy designs that fall apart on occasion. If tappet wear is a big concern then don't replace valve springs. Old weaker springs will work fine as long as the motor isn't being revved like crazy.

Posted on: 2012/6/9 22:09
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Re: New Quaker State Oil
#4
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D-train
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I read an article at www.allpar.com (Mopar stuff) and a tech that used to run the dynos talked about problems that they had with the Pennsylvania crude oils having alot of paraffin in them naturally. ...and it caused poor flow when cold. ...but that was in the 70's.

Here's the article.http://www.allpar.com/history/interviews/marc-rozman/5-roller-cams.html

Posted on: 2012/6/10 0:35
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Re: New Quaker State Oil
#5
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Mike
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"As for flat tappets most motors today use them"

Most motors today (that aren't overhead cam) are rollers.

Posted on: 2012/6/10 2:56
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Re: New Quaker State Oil
#6
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su8overdrive
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Sportsfans, listen to Tim Cole. This entire ZDDP fire in a crowded theater nonsense started because a couple CCCA members with 1936-48 flathead Cadillac V-8s had their chintzy bronze timing gear go bad coincidentally after recent overhauls. Packard wisely used hardened steel, reason #8,372 why we're here.

I was wondering when the ZDDP scare would rear it's empty lil' head here, dreading the day, hoping PackardInfo would be immune.

Lotta words, bottom line: The zinc level in most major motor oils is the same as it was back in the 1970s, and we didn't hear this malarkey then. Instead, it was don't use multiweight, don't use detergent, you "hafta" use antifreeze, use only distilled water in your cooling system, never put a battery on a concrete floor.

Then it was don't use silicone brake fluid, and half the bubbas making dire predictions didn't and don't know the difference between silicon and silicone, or probably take, much less pass, high school chemistry.

Zinc levels were increased, but in the last few years, SM, SN oil ratings decreased them---back to where they were in the 1970s -- because too much zinc harms catalytic convertors.

There are always a bunch of JimBobs rebuilding their hopped up Chevy V-8s. This recent zinc curtailment gave them a new black helicopter, grassy knoll to point to.
Internet blither spreads like wildfire. Contrary to Fox "News," repeating something that sounds good doesn't make it so.
Everyone's allowed to have opines, to rant.

But we're here for, as Sgt. Joe Friday requested, "Just the facts, ma'am."

I happen to use Kendall GT1 10W-30 because it's an old, respected brand, popular on the East Coast, where i came of age; because it used to be the same deep green as Packard painted their engines through '50, because it smelled, and smells, nice.
Consumers Reports several years ago ran an exhaustive test of NYC cabs using premium conventional (not synthetic) motor oils, after 60,000 miles finding no discernible wear difference from an engine using Exxon, Chevron,
any of the major oil companies' motor oils, nor any of the
major independents including Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol. I don't recall them including Kendall
merely as it was more of a "boutique" brand marketed through speed shops.

Several other major brand motor oils have the same zinc level Kendall GT1 SN now has. I spoke at some length with
one of Conoco-Philips-Kendall's degreed tech gents, himself
a gearhead with an old car with a flat cam engine with vastly higher valve spring pressure than our ancient, low-stressed, yet refined lawnmower engines.
Earlier, i corresponded with another Kendall tech maven, who'd owned a '41 Packard.

Friends who like Chevron, Texaco, other brands have had similar discussions with their R&D and tech folk, many of whom themselves own and drive, old, some very old, collector cars.

One of the Conoco-Philips-Kendall senior techs knows one of the fellows involved with the formulation of the 15W-40 "Classic Car Motor Oil" marketed through the CCCA's Indiana Region. Regarding this fellow's endeavor and even some of Kendall Oil's current marketing promoting ZDDP, he
chuckled and said, "Any company that wants to stay in business has to give people what they want, or think they need. "

I hesitated posting this. I'd never post it on the AACA Forum's collection of barroom rants, or on the 1941 Cadillac Club of America's Forum.

But i've noted there are some bright, upbeat, helpful gentlemen on this fine site, befitting the car built by gentlemen for gentlemen, and so want to allay any fear, hysteria.

Sure now, someone who knows somebody who hears tell that so-and-so's camshaft went bad in 50 miles while using
such-and-such motor oil will chime in. So be it.

The rest of you gents, a little judicious Googling, or
even picking up the telephone and calling the motor oil of your choice's tech dept. should put this to rest.

Yeah, i've read all the downhome ol' curr magazines, too.
And through my Ferrari friends, i hear the rumors from the
box seats. Mad money does not = knowledge.

Some of us enjoy Packards as respite from the
rabble.

Posted on: 2012/6/10 3:32
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Re: New Quaker State Oil
#7
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rblum
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su8overdrive,
Loved it! Say what you mean, mean what you say!

Posted on: 2012/6/10 6:23
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Re: New Quaker State Oil
#8
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JWL
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Regarding Cadillac 346 V-8 timing gear failures. In the recent past some replacement gears were being made of brass instead of bronze. These gears had a short half life. I don't think any kind of motor oil could have prevented these failures.

(o[]o)

Posted on: 2012/6/10 7:43
We move toward
And make happen
What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer)
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Re: New Quaker State Oil
#9
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Randy Berger
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We are fortunate to have this forum where we can speak our mind and voice our opinions (right or wrong) without name-calling or being shouted down. THANK YOU KEV!

Posted on: 2012/6/10 9:07
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Re: New Quaker State Oil
#10
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Tim Cole
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When it comes to flat tappet applications a good case in point is the Cummins 6.7 litre diesel. In that motor each tappet is opening two valves. It has about the same rev range as the Junior Packards. It's a wonderful running motor and would certainly go a million miles if they dialed the horsepower down. However, they don't offer that option because everybody wants a truck that will turn a 14 second quarter mile. Yet the tappets aren't affected much by the injection program and they do okay.

Where these people get the money to buy those trucks every five years is a mystery which is why I don't have it.

The other day I was looking through Turnquist's book and found a passage where he essentially said that the car hobby should be about having fun. His politics notwithstanding, I guess he wrote that when he was in the middle of problems on the CCCA board.

In the modern car realm we talk about design problems whereas in the old car realm there were too many interpersonal wars going on over old worn out cars. There is something wrong with that picture. Maybe they think the same thing about me where I work now, but at least they don't come in everyday and try to start a fight.

Posted on: 2012/6/10 12:40
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