Hello and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Recent Comments
Who is Online
56 user(s) are online (40 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 1
Guests: 55

kevinpackard, more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal




Researching Restoration Photographs of a 1938 Twelve
#1
Just popping in
Just popping in

mhartzold
See User information
Hello all. I am an antiquarian book and photographs dealer. I ran across these forums while doing some web research on a recent acquisition and thought I would pick y'alls brains. I hope that's OK.

I have four photo albums documenting the restoration of what appears to be a single car identified as a 1938 Packard. Through some internet research, I believe it may be a Model Twelve All-Weather Town Car by Rollston (the engine definitely has 12 cylinders and the interior coach work matches descriptions of Rollstons I've read in auction listings online).


There are two visible dash plaques in the photographs, one from a CCCA "4th Grand Classic" in Lake Forest, IL (date too blurry to read, but possibly 1960) and a 1958 SCCA "Westroads Concours" held right here where I am in St. Louis.

Additionally, there is a raised (theft proof) number on the engine bay firewall that appears to read "411055." Otherwise, I can't make out any identifying information and the original factory plate/decal appears to be off the car in the photos.

I am guessing the majority of the black and white photos capture it pre-restoration and are from sometime in the late 1960's (based on my familiarity with snapshot photography of the 20th Century and some blurry views of other vehicles in a few backgrounds) and the color views of it in restoration seem more like early 1970's.

Here is a link to several photographs of the album pages: https://photos.app.goo.gl/hwRwcd3iLKQz7xgX6

I would love to hear input from anyone who might be able to help me further or more precisely identify this car. Cheers and thanks for looking!

Posted on: 4/28 11:00
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Researching Restoration Photographs of a 1938 Twelve
#2
Home away from home
Home away from home

Guscha
See User information
Hello Martin (mhartzold), welcome to PackardInfo.come
To me, it looks like 411055 and the number in question is a so-called thief-proof number. Our expert Dave (Owen_Dyneto) published -> there a sample of Packard font:
Resized Image

To -> quote him: In Packard's proprietary type font the digit "1" is represented as a "I".

Attach file:



jpg  411055.jpg (42.50 KB)
757_6089af4c5a426.jpg 656X324 px

Posted on: 4/28 12:53
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Researching Restoration Photographs of a 1938 Twelve
#3
Home away from home
Home away from home

Guscha
See User information
For contrasting juxtaposition an image that shows a 1938 Twelve All Weather Town Car by Rollston.

Resized Image




source for the below shown image: Martin Hartzold

Attach file:



jpg  Rollson All-Weather Town Car.jpg (621.65 KB)
757_6089b5161e081.jpg 1098X762 px

Posted on: 4/28 13:10
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Researching Restoration Photographs of a 1938 Twelve
#4
Just popping in
Just popping in

mhartzold
See User information
Thanks for the replies! I agree with your interpretation of the theft proof numbers and appreciate your sharing of the side view of an identified Rollston All Weather Town Car.

I've also located this auction result for a different example of the same car from RM Sotheby's with a rather detailed description including this snippet:

"The Sixteenth Series All-Weather Town Car offered here is one of only three survivors recorded by Rollston historian Dr. Charles Blackman"

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/sj1 ... wn-car-by-rollston/181016

These records of Blackman's referenced by the auction copywriter, are they a published work? It seems like it would be pretty easy to figure out the who/what/where/etc... of these photos if there are only two others out there.

Do you know if is Blackman still around and/or accessible via email, etc....? I've found some reference to him online, but nothing indicating he's authored books or published a database of any kind on the subject. Thanks again!

Posted on: 4/28 15:25
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Researching Restoration Photographs of a 1938 Twelve
#5
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

Owen_Dyneto
See User information
Charlie Blackman is still very active in the hobby and especially in The Packard Club, you'll find his contact info in the club Directory. His studies of survivor cars and production estimates is not a book or formal publication though he has been quite generous with providing copies when requested.

Posted on: 4/28 15:59
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Researching Restoration Photographs of a 1938 Twelve
#6
Just popping in
Just popping in

mhartzold
See User information
Thank you!

Posted on: 4/29 2:10
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Researching Restoration Photographs of a 1938 Twelve
#7
Home away from home
Home away from home

Guscha
See User information
Martin, you could try -> this way.

Posted on: 4/29 2:47
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Researching Restoration Photographs of a 1938 Twelve
#8
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

Ozstatman
See User information
Or from the list of Roster Keepers on the PAC Website, see the screen print below.

Attach file:



jpg  Charles Blackman.JPG (24.29 KB)
226_608a844deeff7.jpg 311X262 px

Posted on: 4/29 4:03
Mal
/o[]o\
====

Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD

1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD

1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

What's this?
Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry!
Here's how!
Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Researching Restoration Photographs of a 1938 Twelve
#9
Just popping in
Just popping in

mhartzold
See User information
Thanks a ton. I've just emailed him.

Posted on: 4/29 5:27
 Top  Print 
 








Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
1949 Packard sedan, three-quarter left front view
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2021, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved