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Re: hph's 55 Clipper Project
#91
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Packard Don
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Hmmm. Factory mirrors weren't convex either. No cars had them from the factory, as far as I know, for at least two decades.

Posted on: 12/23 20:49
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Re: hph's 55 Clipper Project
#92
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humanpotatohybrid
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I didn't mean to imply that they were, just that they would be much more useful if so, especially given their mounting position.

Side note, I got the clock and headlight switch reinstalled today. Soon I will go through and replace all the burnt out light bulbs. Some more minor diagnosis is needed as none of the GEN, reverse, or license lights work, though for all it could be bad bulbs. Though I suspect the N-R switch and a bad splice may be to blame for the latter two. For the GEN light, I assume there is an NC relay in the housing powered by the generator wire to light it when the generator is not generating, so if this be the case, that contact could easily be lightly corroded.

Posted on: 12/23 21:43
'55 400. Needs aesthetic parts put back on, and electrical system sorted.
'55 Clipper Deluxe. Engine is stuck-ish.
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Re: hph's 55 Clipper Project
#93
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HH56
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No relays involved in the BAT or OIL indicator light circuits. First check the instrument cluster fuse under the dash. The holders are particularly prone to oxidation. If fuse and holder is good then BAT light wiring is a direct run with one side spliced in the wire between the GEN (or ARM) terminals at regulator and generator, the other side going to the ign switch via the instrument cluster fuse.

Here is a somewhat generic simplified drawing of the BAT indicator light and how it fits into the overall charging system. The actual Packard circuit is not shown in the drawing but for 55-6 Packard has wire 25-pink connecting to the fuse and ultimately the ign sw while wire 3A-brown goes to the GEN terminal at the regulator/generator via a splice.

Bulb gets voltage from ign switch and is grounded thru the generator. As long as no voltage is being produced by the generator bulb burns bright. As the generator starts putting out voltage, once both sides match the bulb goes out. It can flicker at idle speeds when the cutout relay is turning on and off or be dim if the generator is still putting out at a low enough voltage that the potential difference is able to have current flow.

Attach file:



jpg  Charging Circuit.JPG (419.28 KB)
209_6587a2b475aa0.jpg 1200X728 px

Posted on: 12/23 22:19
Howard
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Re: hph's 55 Clipper Project
#94
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humanpotatohybrid
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I see the generator light is connected to both the instrument light wires and the generator wire. Do they just connect one wire to each side of the bulb and rely on that difference in voltage to light it? If so, then it would make sense why mine is not lit as my voltage regulator and generator are both off the car currently.

Posted on: 12/24 7:27
'55 400. Needs aesthetic parts put back on, and electrical system sorted.
'55 Clipper Deluxe. Engine is stuck-ish.
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Re: hph's 55 Clipper Project
#95
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Ross
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Although much maligned as idiot lights the gen light is a useful thing. First up, on long drives I can get very lazy about scanning the gages and it is good that something gets my attention. Second, every time you turn on the key, it polarizes the generator correctly. Of course, if the generator dies, the light comes on. But there is another cool trick. If the light comes on and gets even brighter as you rev the engine, it shows the the gen is working but the cutout relay in the regulator is not.

In a similar vein, I am delighted that the oil light comes on as soon as there is a devastating problem and I don't have to be alerted by a rod knock because I was entranced by the scenery while the oil filter gasket blew out.

Posted on: 12/24 9:00
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Re: hph's 55 Clipper Project
#96
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humanpotatohybrid
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Thanks, Ross. Sounds like you are speaking from experience on the oil light!

I want to try and have these little important things working on this car for such reasons. Likewise on the 400 I'm not particularly fond of the oil gauge, which often does not even work. There is a hydraulic gauge installed under the dash that works fine, but checking it is akin to looking at the floor. So I need to at least troubleshoot the electric oil gauge in the future.

Oh, on the Clipper the oil light is also not working but it (or the temp gauge, or both) have damaged wiring which I have not gotten around to patching yet. Now that I think of it, the 5V regulator is probably nonfunctional also. The 320 engine I have is from a Nash or Hudson and it's unclear to me whether the senders that it (probably) has in it would be compatible. I'll probably just buy a triple gauge to check the operation/calibration of the factory senders at the very least.

Posted on: 12/24 9:53
'55 400. Needs aesthetic parts put back on, and electrical system sorted.
'55 Clipper Deluxe. Engine is stuck-ish.
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Re: hph's 55 Clipper Project
#97
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HH56
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Quote:

humanpotatohybrid wrote:
I see the generator light is connected to both the instrument light wires and the generator wire. Do they just connect one wire to each side of the bulb and rely on that difference in voltage to light it? If so, then it would make sense why mine is not lit as my voltage regulator and generator are both off the car currently.

That is correct. With no output the generator windings provide the ground path from the battery, thru ign sw and cluster fuse, bulb, generator windings and finally to ground. As soon as the generator starts putting out enough voltage to close the cutout relay contacts the bulb filament path is completely bypassed by the hard contact connection so bulb goes out.

If generator voltage output falls enough to open the cutout contacts then depending on how much voltage is still being produced by the generator, current will flow from the battery side thru the bulb to the generator side and bulb will either be on constantly but be dim. It can also flicker when the engine slows to idle if the cutout relay setting closely matches the reduced generator output so cutout contacts are opening and closing.

Posted on: 12/24 9:54
Howard
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Re: hph's 55 Clipper Project
#98
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HH56
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5v regulator only works the gas and temp gauges in a Clipper but is fed from the instrument cluster fuse. Oil light should also be fed via the same path from the instrument cluster fuse as the BAT light. It gets ground thru the oil sender which is just a normally closed pressure switch that opens above a certain pressure to extinguish the light.

Temp sender should be in the same place on the Hash engine -- rear of left head next to firewall. The heads are reversible so with the manifold on front end the rear end of heads is about the only place there is an accessible water port. I believe it is the same on Hash engines with the left used for temp sender and right for heater water. As far as I know the Hash engines all were equipped with Ultramatics but even if not should have the same port linkage bracket or closures bolted to the end of the heads to cover the open ports.

The temp sender has a wider resistance range overall but should have the working area at the same approx 70 to 10 ohms as the fuel sender with the 70 ohm end being at cooler and 10 at hot.

Here is a bit showing the actual sender resistance range another poster found using a 52 temp gauge as the display but the same basic sender 55-6 uses. Since the gauges are marked differently you would need to take that into account when correlating the approximate temps between gauges.

Attach file:



jpg  temp sender resistance.jpg (114.45 KB)
209_65884be508a6c.jpg 778X726 px

Posted on: 12/24 10:21
Howard
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Re: hph's 55 Clipper Project
#99
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humanpotatohybrid
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Thanks again Howard for this info. Probably I'll just pull the whole gauge cluster out to lube the speedo, check the regulator, and check the gauges all at once. If I can find a low ohm potentiometer lying around I'll figure out the req'd ohm readings for the temp and gas gauges. Presumably it's the same as below.

Posted on: 12/24 10:49
'55 400. Needs aesthetic parts put back on, and electrical system sorted.
'55 Clipper Deluxe. Engine is stuck-ish.
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Re: hph's 55 Clipper Project
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HH56
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Quote:
In a similar vein, I am delighted that the oil light comes on as soon as there is a devastating problem and I don't have to be alerted by a rod knock because I was entranced by the scenery while the oil filter gasket blew out.

A few years ago an oil pressure issue happened to another poster on the forum who came up with a really decent solution. His project details might still be found by doing a search if someone had a cluster out for another reason and wanted to do this to their car.

Don't remember the year other than I think prewar but he was driving and didn't notice an oil pressure issue until too late. He then decided to add a warning or idiot light but in order to keep the stock appearance and not have any added lights visible used red LEDs buried inside the cluster and below the visible part of the gauge. At a glance the car appears completely stock but when the idiot light is on the entire visible gauge face glows red. Even at night with instrument lights on the red gauge face still is visible enough to see and provide an early warning.

Posted on: 12/24 10:54
Howard
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