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As long as I have owned the 47 Super Clipper the OD has not worked. I am finally in the process of trying to sort out what is the problem(started about a year ago-vac leak got in the way). When I purchased the car the od operator rod was always pushed in-I think engaged position. As I understand the operation all this does is mechanically prevent the solenoid from engaging-is that correct?
I was worried that by driving the car with OD engaged but no solenoid engagement I might be doing harm to the unit. I am getting involved with the OD-more questions to follow

Driving the car with the overdrive knob pulled out will not hurt the unit. This mode is often preferred in some driving conditions as it restores the engine braking, and is like driving a car without an overdrive. I'll be following your thread with interest.

(o[]o)

When I purchased the car the od operator rod was always pushed in-I think engaged position. As I understand the operation all this does is mechanically prevent the solenoid from engaging-is that correct?


With the knob pushed in, OD and the solenoid have mechanically been ready to go into OD. Since it hasn't I'd start from scratch with power feed into the relay. If that is present, then the ground continuity starting from the governor pigtail connection thru the lockout and kickdown switches. Once you have those confirmed, then you can go for the harder stuff either in the governor or in the relay etc to figure out why the solenoid isn't coming in.

If you meant with the knob pulled out, then OD would have been mechanically and electrically locked out.

Thanks John and Howard for your reply. As you may remember Howard I got started on the OD about a year ago with your guidance-I grounded the #5 terminal on the relay-the contacts pulled in- I had 4.5 volts on #4 and 6v on #3(as I remember). I am fairly certain the kickdown switch is open and the ground wire(I assume) for the centrifugal switch is just hanging-not connected to anything. With all that said grounding #5 should bring the solenoid in which it does not.

My next move is to check out the solenoid and see if I have voltage at the terminnals on the solenoid.

The orginal question was meant to get more understanding how the OD works. With the knob pulled out-I think all this does is mechanically and electrically prevent the solenoid from energizing-at least that what it appears on the BW owners manual.

Suggestions welcome

thks

With the knob pulled out-I think all this does is mechanically and electrically prevent the solenoid from energizing-at least that what it appears on the BW owners manual.

Correct -- Not sure exactly which manual you mean but the BW service manual on site is for the R11 and there are differences to the R9. R9 is covered in the Packard Econo-Drive manual.

Mechanically in the R9 the lockout moves a sleeve which slides into position preventing OD gearing operation. Electrically, the lockout switch opens preventing the governor from providing the ground to the relay.

Since you have voltage, I'd measure the solenoid terminals as a quick start. When wires are disconnected, there should be continuity to ground on both terminal 3 and 4. The number ID is stamped faintly on the case near the terminals. If 4 is open, that will prevent the solenoid from pulling in.

I've been following the various Over Drive threads r9 and r11. Seems like alot of sugar for a nickle in trying to diagnose the various over drive controls such as relays, governors, wireing charts, vacuum etc etc.

Am i to assume that everyone thus ar is purist for the OD operation?????

Let me put it another way:
Why bother with the various controls EXCEPT for ONE control that either engages OD or disengages OD and get on with life???

I would think at a stage in life in which one is operating any kind of a special interest automobile then one would have enuf driving and gear shifting experience to be able to reach over and pull/push a lever or fip a simple switch to get OD or disengage it. Enuf experience as well to know when OD is engaged or not engaged and under what conditions to MANUALY engaage or disengage it.

Lets face it. purpose for OD is high gear and over 45 mph. Why would anyone want OD engaged under any other condition??

When it's working as designed, it is oooh-so-nice. I, personally, like to have things the way they were meant to be. If I wanted the simple eas of modern convenience, I hop in my Crossfire. When I hop in my Packard, I want it to work the way it was meant to. When I open the glove box door, I want the the ball switch to turn the light on automatically. Sure it would be easy to flip the switch, it's just nice to have it working right. I feel the same about radial tires.

Skipping all that-OD and the radio are the last 2 things on this car that are not working-I even got the clock to work

Now-back to OD-Howard-I went under the car-#4 terminal is very easy to reach(starring me in the face)-I got condunity with about 1.2 ohms.
This is the pull in coil-correct? I could not get to #3 which is about 180 deg from 4. I did measure at the relay-with the #3 lead removed from the relay about 4 ohm.

This is very concerning-Mark Lambert(packard wizard) looked at this OD some years ago before I purchased it and told the owner there was something wrong in the OD

Could the solenoid be locked up? Also are the terminals on the solenoid in the right places(possible someone reinstalled it incorrectly)

Another thing-with #5 relay terminal grounded-I get5.5-6 volts on 4 and 4.5 on 3 with lead removed from 3-voltage is 5.5v

David

4 is the pull in coil and 1.2 ohms sounds OK. Mine measure about 1.5 so is within the range of meter differences. 3 is the hold in coil & is of thinner wire so 4 sounds OK also. Mine measures 5.1.

The voltages sound OK. 4 is directly off the battery so 5.5-6 is maybe a tad low for a 6.3 battery but again within measurement error. 3 is fed thru the second relay coil to the hold in coil. Essentially you are measuring it at a point somewhere in a series string so voltage will be a bit lower. Removing the wire and getting a higher voltage would be correct since with the pull in coil disconnected, there is nothing loading it down.

One thing I would do next is to disconnect 4 (only) at the solenoid. Then with all the switches closed and ready for OD, use a jumper (or separate the wire from the governor pigtail) so you can ground the relay and have control from under the car. Ground that jumper to bring in the relay. You should hear it and have the 5.5-6v unloaded on the wire.

When you touch wire against the terminal, there should be a fairly decent spark and solenoid should try to come in. If it does and stays in when you move the wire off terminal, hold in coil is also OK so all is good with solenoid. If it tries to machine gun, hold in coil has a problem. If it sparks but no solenoid, then there is some kind of mechanical problem. If no spark, then need to investigate why not.

I don't remember the orientation but you can verify the wires match properly from the terminals on relay to corresponding ones on solenoid. One other thing others have run into recently with varying symptoms is the solenoid spacer installed incorrectly. That might be something to rule out if you haven't already.

EDIT: Did you do a continuity check on each wire from the relay to the solenoid. Some (not all) of the cars have a two part harness. About 3 ft from the OD, there were some black plastic connectors joining the two sections. If yours had or still have them, those connectors were problematic even when new. There is also the possibility wires were disconnected and then incorrectly rejoined out of order.

I do have the 2 part wire harness-I have not traced the wires back to relay or solenoid

Instead of grounding the centrigual switch-I know the kickdown switch shows open instead of closed-I grounded the number 5 lead on the relay to put voltage on 3 and 4. I disconnected 4 at the solenoid. I verfied that there was 6 volts at the 4 lead going to solenoid. I then touched it to the #4 solenoid terminal-there were sparks and a clicking sound-then it stopped. Checked for voltage on the lead 4 and still had 6v. Checked contuity on #4 terminal on the solenoid-it now shows open.

I also verfied that the manual lock out switch was functioning from under the car-it moves very smoothly.

I read the post about the spacer orientation-not sure how to determine right or wrong.

Do the solenoids have a thermal overload switch?

thks

David