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Part B: what condition would you seek as being the best long term decision?

You are not sure of your friends financial position and you think he would like to drive the car some.

Well, I can't speak for your friend, but I can share my thoughts on buying old cars, ok Packards.

I used to buy projects as demonstrated by the 55 400 I just sold. I paid $4500 for it in the mid 90's. I then proceeded to have the engine rebuilt and had the engine compartment painted while the engine was out of the car. Add $6500. It still needed a tranny rebuild $3,500; paint $5,000 and new interior $5,000. At the end of the day I would have $25,000 into a car worth $10,000 so I decided to cut my loses and I sold the car for $2,500. I decided I could buy a pretty nice 400 for $10,000 today.

I also bought a 53 Patrician for $3,500 in the same time frame. It had tatty seats, pitting in the chrome, a little rust in the rockers. I sold that car to my mechanic's mom and dad. is mom saw the car just had to have it. I figured it was good to double the amount of Packard owners in the local area.
I used to look at that car and all I could see were the imperfections. I even bought a $20 seat cover to cover the tatty seat.

I saw that car a couple years ago proudly parked in their garage next to a couple Chryslers. The pitted chrome had hours spent on polishing it. The original paint had hours spent on buffing it. The same 20 dollar seat cover was still on it. I couldn't believe how nice that car looked.
It just glowed. The dad laughed at me when I offered to buy it back. This car in original condition, with all the imperfections parked next to some Chryslers worth a lot more than it, was still the Packard. It will never be for sale.

I have since learned that original condition cars are now very acceptable. Patina I think it's called. I have learned that now I look at what a car does have instead of what it doesn't.

Now when I am looking for cars I have a new check list.In this order:

1) I look for a good interior, either original or redone. That is a very expensive part of a restoration. Usually worth at least $ 5,000 is you plan on having it done.

2) I look for either good original or redone paint and chrome. Each can be worth $5,000 if you plan on having it done.

3) Mechanical, this is the easiest and least expensive part to have redone.

I used to only look at cars under $5,000 figuring I could have the other parts done as the budget permitted. Now I look for cars in the $5 to $10 k range using the above check list. I am finding a nice selection of cars available that I can get on the road faster and I don't have to put as much money into them.

Model is not real important for a beginner, especialy a young beginner.
My recommendation is something LOW MILEAGE and COMPLETE or nearly complete. LIttle bit of rust ok but not much. If the car is complete and not worn out at something like 80K miles then most likely it can be easy to get it running and on the road.

In many cases a good detailing of paint in terms of cleaning and polishing can make a decent looking car. Cheap set of SHit-Mart seat covers can do wonders too along with floor mats.

All of that is ok for a beginner.

THe best collectible for ANYONE is a low-use, well sheltered, 95% complete item AND INTACT (meaning not alot of parts in baskets). Doesn't matter if it doesn't run or work or not. Getting it running is not a major effort nor expense.

Of course if the car is cheap enuf alot of the points made above can be ignored.

Buy the best car you can afford. While people are always concerned about the mechanicals, body and interior are usually always far more expensive to correct and repair.

I agree with Big Kev. That is good advice for whatever kind of car (new, used, antique) a person considers buying. I'd also add that the potential buyer should do a serious self-assessment about what he or she is capable to doing; i.e. determine his or her competency in mechanical abilities, along with a satisfactory complement of tools or a determination of competency in completing tasks such as changing out windows, restoring door panels, upholstery, et al. The more capabilities a buyer has can considerably reduce the overall cost of ownership in terms of restoration. The more one has to shop out, the higher the cost of ownership (see TinPan's story).

I went the route of trying to restore a '64 Cadillac Sedan de Ville and got weighed down in terms of the costs of parts and my lack of necessary equipment and tools. I managed to get it to decent running shape and sold it at loss. I did a lot better on a 1974 Alfa Romeo Berlina.

Now that I live in a place without a garage (I rent space for my Clipper in a private garage), I realized that attempting to restore a car under those circumstances was entirely impractical. So instead I looked around for what was in very good shape for what I considered a reasonable price and bought it. As a result, I am able to drive and enjoy my car without forking out a ton of dough on simply getting it to run. Since I work fulltime, I also do not have a lot of disposable time for tackling major projects such as rebuilding a transmission or prepping a car for paint.

Even if a person is willing to do the work and has the tools and resources at hand, Kev's advice still holds true. Buying the best car one can afford means the buyer might be able to latch on to a higher end or rarer Packard which could really pay off when he or she goes to trade or sell. Anyway, I am starting to ramble, so I'll only add -- seek plenty of advice from owners and be careful. Even if you love the car, still use your head. If it causes too much trouble and headaches, you probably won't love it in the long run.

The model is entirely based on eye appeal and we all have our own opinions and reasons why we choose a specific body style or model. I've owned many makes and models of cars, some I restored myself and some were original survivors but I never purchased one that had been restored by someone else or by a professional restoration shop. I've narrowed by own choices down to the 50's era because for me, the era holds the treasured memories of my childhood and I think we all identify with something in our past that we basically want to be able to touch...in my own case, my car is my time machine that takes me back to the best years of my life. Growing up, I remember seeing all the independents on the roads Packards, Studebakers, Hudsons, Nash's, and Kaisers. As far back as I remember, I was always so curious about them...wanting to learn all I could about them and that curiosity has never wavered. Assuming your friend is also a Packard fan, advise him to first choose the model that he views as the most appealing. Be careful of cars with fresh paint as many times they hold hidden surprises. Focus on cars with original or older paint jobs but with solid and straight sheet metal. Replating chrome is very expensive, my car had a receipt in the glove compartment from 2000 for plating work in the amount or $3500 that covered all exterior chrome and it still shines like new today. Custom nterior work can be very expensive but there are also trim shops who do good work and offer more reasonably priced materials. If you can't hear it run then it's not worth anything but for parts in my opinion so to sum it up, look for a nice solid and complete "SURVIVOR" that your friend can get in, start up, and drive. Put it up on a rack and look for rust, leaks, and holes where holes shouldn't be...if the car is in the condition and price range that your friend is looking for then it's the car for him.

First thing would be to find out how good of a mechanic the guy is.

I bought a sold a few cars over the years. For me, it seem mechanical ability is dropping off, fast. I'm finding cars that have been worked on by the clueless until they are completely hosed up.

For example, my Corvair was barely running and was not Realy safe to drive with the way the brakes were. I got that car cheap. I spent about 6 hours going through it from one end to the other and spent $35 tuning it up. It's now a wonderful little driver. But, the guy I bought it from did everything just a little wrong until the point was reach that it was worthless to him because he couldn't fix it.

If a guy is a good mechanic, he can buy anything and do ok. If he has to job out all the work, buy something that is done already.

One other thought.

If its your first classic, buy a runner that you can drive and have fun with. Many cars are bought by people and then stripped down into a big project that never gets done.

I think it's important for the first time restorer to find a car that is as basic, and as close to running As possible.

Too many first time restorers go after the big, flashy models with all the gadgets and end up burning out quick and give up because they are overwhelmed. It is imperative that the first time restorer get quicker gratification from simpler accomplishment and get the car on the road.

Once they have the skills and confidence learned on these basic models, then they can start on the more complicated stuff and do so with a good understanding of restoration.

I see too many cars half disassembled and in boxes because the person got overwhelmed and gave up. Most are the deluxe models with to many options.

This is especially true with the younger generations of today who seem to have the attention span of about 30 minutes. They need to see improvement quicker to stay interested.

If a person is going to try his or her hand at restoration, I think it is absolutely imperative that he or she obtrain a shop manual before starting. These guides provide the necessary specs and disassemble/reassemble walk throughs that can save hours of time and mountains of frustration. That said, refer back to what I wrote and Blackbeerd reiterated regarding mechanical aptitude. A wise person is one who rcognizes and accepts his limitations as to what he can expect to do and thinks things through very carefully before he starts to take things apart. It's always a lot essier to take an engine apart than to successfully rebuild it, especially if you are not careful to note exactly where everything went before you start. Changing your spark plugs and tuning your car is far less complicated that taking apart an Ultramatic transmission.

Also, have your fall-back options in place before you start. Few things in this world ever work perfectly the first time; best to recognize this law of mechanics -- it is important to know someone who can help you when you get in over your head.