Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

is it bolt/washer/pad/body/shim(if needed)/pad/frame ear/pad/washer/nut ???

or is there no pad under the frame ear?

i'm trying to buy body mounts from steele. and I have to say its damn confusing and I took crap pictures when I took the body off.

the SM isn't much help and the parts book seems worthless too.

some pics of the body mounts as you replaced them, or original would be nice.

any help is appreciated in this regard. don't want to spend a ton and get the wrong amount of pads as they aren't cheap.

also some pics of how the radiator cradle pads mount is appreciated.

Hank

The illustrated cross-section provided in the 55-56 shop manual (i.e. - Figure 2 in the Body section) might not make things crystal clear, but the description of the stack-up in the corresponding text is a bit more detailed.

No mention of any pad above floor (body) - can't see why it would be needed. I believe the idea was to sandwich the ear/tongue of the outrigger bracket between the rubber.

Though no mention of shims in the SM, they are listed in the parts book and would certainly need to be located above outrigger bracket (where needed), but I can't recall, off-hand, whether that was above or below the cushion/pad. Hope you took note, during removal, of which shims were used at each location.

Steele's product search results is terribly lacking in detail, but if you click on the generic part name, it will take you to a part-specific page with additional details - inlcuding Packard P/Ns. The factory parts book IDs location for each P/N.

If you're talking about radiator-to-cradle mounting, nothin shown in the SM, but look at SC Vol. 25, No. 7, p. 27 regarding a modification for 1951. Parts books shows these same parts used through 56.

Perhaps others who have passed through the body-off-frame guantlet can help fill in the blanks.

The thing I think you are going to find is unless you took measurements, you will have an interesting experience when it goes back on the frame. I took mine apart blindly and didn't measure. Tried to keep track of which cushions went where but with duplicating hard, flat or shrunken cushions and probably a wrong guess or two, had a devil of a time getting it back where things are decently aligned with the new cushions. Mine is still not perfect but tolerable. An experienced body shop guy probably would have less of a problem because he knows what affects other things.

Steele's cushions were not available at the time so I made my own out of Flexane in the thicknesses and configurations I thought were needed. Even though trying to keep them so I was reasonably sure I knew which thickness went where, with the new it took a lot of trial and error to get things back to the condition where they are now.

Because the body is flexible and maybe partly due to the poor quality assy problems, there is a variation in height to the frame mounts. Just because the parts manual says a certain thickness or combination is used at a point -- don't entirely believe it. It's a starting point and shims do the rest. If things are not lined up pretty well, the body will bow, twist, skew, flex, bind and you name whatever term you want when things are tightened down. Doors won't line up, front and rear glass fits the openings poorly.

The parts manual in section 30.1004 has locations using thick and thin cushions so you might be able to cross Steele's numbers that way. A following group # and also the convertible listings gives some steel washer thicknesses which might also help in figuring out the overall distance. As Brian mentioned, the cushions are under the body with the frame hole captured between the cushions. There's one or two locations with a single cushion - no sandwich. A steel washer on bottom & a washer or shims on top to underside of body completes the assy. One of the cushions usually has a section which will fit into the frame hole. Most all have a steel spacer to prevent tightening the bolt from compressing the rubber.

just looking at old pictures of when i took the body bolts out...they had washers and pads on the top section in the car itself. that is why i'm so damn confused.

i have the pads on a string in the order they came off the ears. course....which one is number 1....your guess is as good as mine.

i didn't do to well at this point of the disassembly. wish i could go back and smack myself in the head.

i'll post some pics once i get them resized.



as for the radiator, i'm talking about the cradle to frame...so that counsler doesn't help, although good for mounting the radiator.

i did see a pic that shows the cradle to frame. looks like bolt/washer/cradle/pad/frame/pad/washer/nut

i had a crap camera back in the day so zooming on my pics is just worthless for any kind of detail.

i'm getting close, using the steele/packard numbers.

i believe i need 20 of 437642 (I think this is for the top and bottom of the ears), 8 of 448179 (book says for number 6?), and then then ones for in the car itself with the bolt???? which may not even exist and my pictures are totally worthless.

also where does that thin wafer/paper pad go. wow....this is gonna suck so bad.

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i think in my pics i took...looking at the body section, figure 2, like you mentioned above.....the rubber and washer must have fallen off and was actually from the bottom of the ear on the frame and i put it there to take a pic of where it came from. not that it really helps me any now.

i think i'm starting to understand a little better now.

HH, i sure hope i can get things together without skewing it....gonna be a lot of trial and error i think.

thanks for the input guys!

one more question....i'm guessing 6 and 7 are the ones in the trunk portion of the body? and 1-5 being the ones listed in the pic of the frame in the part diagrams.

Since you have photos, that's a good indication of how the rubber goes. The thing you are trying to do is isolate the body from the frame. One or the other is sandwiched between the rubber. Whether the rubber pieces are between the frame hole and solid to the body or between the body and solid to the frame is not going to affect the isolation too much. Since you have some photos showing some locations, I'd sit the body above the frame and start with known configuration. Once you get a few known installed, the distance you have between the frame and body at others or the relative size of the holes should give an indication of what goes where.

#1 is the firewall locations in engine compt and goes rearward with total depending on your model. The picture in the frame section of SM shows where they are.

think i figured it out. thin wafer/paper one goes to number 1 inner. then i go around the string starting with 1 outer through number 6. number 7 is still on the bolt for the very back of the trunk.

all the inner ones are not on the string. this is just a guess here. but its further then i was last night.

make pic bigger to seem my 2 year old paint editing with the numbers of the pads.

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See what you mean now about 'pads' on top of the floor.

Those appear to be at the inner locations (through the frame rail) specified by the parts book - as opposed to outer (through an outrigger). Notice that there's NO inner/outer designation used for #3/5/6/7 mounts; #3/5 go through an outrigger only, while #6/7 go through the frame rail.

Considering the cross-section in the SM, I'm thinking, then, that thick is above the frame/outrigger and thin is below. The tubular metal spacer, used to limit compression, is probably part of the thick cushion, then.

Yet, I could be all wet with that line of thinking, as I can't find a listing for that any 'pad' shown on top of the floor pan at the inner locations. Perhaps they used the thin cushion above the floor in those locations, instead of below the top of the frame rail, but with the thick cushion located/oriented as usual. That might be why Packard resorted to thick/thin terminology, rather than upper/lower, as I've seen with other manufactrers.

WRT the shims, Packard was not the only manufacturer to use those in conjunction with the body mounts to accomodate for variation in production and assembly. Packard notes quantity per car as 'X' - so, they were simply used as needed.

GM body mount locations, for body-on-frame vehicles, were numbered starting at the radiator core support (cradle), but Howard is correct about Packard - #1 starts at the firewall.

Radiator cradle-to-frame mounting parts are listed in Gr. 11.0045; note the different (finer) thread pitch on the bolts. Judging from the application listing, the stack-up might be same as (most) body mounts, rubber sandwiching the frame, but you might wanna look at another V8 (assembled) befor you cinch 'em up.

Meanwhile, study the existing rubber and steel for witness marks that might help you ID original locations/positions on your car.

Breathe slowly - in, out, repeat.

Here is a rough sketch that I did of the body mounts on a 1956 Four Hundred. Your Clipper should be similar.

Also a copy of the parts book frame illustration with the mounting location numbers added.

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YOU ARE AMAZING!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!

BigKev. this HAS to be in the literature!!

thank you so much, BDeB! You are a lifesaver!!