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yazdi] 2:02 am: Good morning, I just purchased a 1924 Packard 143 -7 passenger . This is my first packard. Where do I find the VIN plate? Is the serial number stamped somewhere on the frame? i can clearly see the engine number on the lower front right side of engine. Thanks


Will send "yazdi" a PM.

The problem is one of terminology. The term "VEHICLE IDENTIFICATON NUMBER" was the result of a federal law about 35 years ago. Cars built after that had to have a "VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER", which had to be visible from outside the car, on the dash-board.

Prior to that, there was no such thing as a "VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER". Cars had "serial numbers", with each manufacturer having its own idea on how to identify cars for licensing and law-enforcement issues.

Packard used the ENGINE number from day one. That is the number that should appear on the car's legal documents.

thank you for the information

Yeah, it's a matter of semantics, but I have to disagree; before the mandated VINs Packard called their identifying number a VEHICLE NUMBER, not a serial number. Please look at a Packard Patent Plate of almost any era (sample below).

Up until about the 9th series the vehicle number was the motor number, but not thereafter. And many, perhaps most states titled with the vehicle number, though there are exceptions. In fact most Packards I've seen titled with motor numbers (and its damn few) were those where the original patent plate was missing.

On your 1924 Packard the plate should be on the inside of the cowl, above the clutch/brake pedals. In that era, the vehicle number is the motor number.

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Perhaps a better example is this earlier patent plate where the identifying number is the motor number, but it's called the VEHICLE NUMBER. And then an example from 1949 or so, again it's a VEHICLE NUMBER, not a serial number.

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G'day Al,

See you've put the question into the Chatroom again

[yazdi] 11:14 am: Good evening gentlemen, i am a new member. I just purchased a 1924 packard 143, 5-7 passenger from a friend of mine. He owned this car for a long time. Can anyone tell me where would I find the VIN plate or the chassis number. I can clearly see the engine number on the lower right side of motor. thanks, Al

Have a look at this thread on the Packard Automobile Club of Australia's website. There could be something in there which might help. And note that DavidM there is also a member of Packardinfo.

packard.freeforums.org/23-packard-t16.html

Quote:

Sorry Al,

Posted my reply before I read your reply above. Looks like you've found your way through the maze!

And as I said in my PM, could please put your '24 in the Owner Registry together with a pic, and history if known? It would be most appreciated.

And a formal to the Site.

I dont know about other states - I spent most of my driving age years in Calif.

I owned a bit more than a few Packards down thru the years -to get "pink" slips ( Calif. Certificate Of Ownership ) DMV always in those pre "VIN" years, always insisted on the ENGINE number.

As a side note, when I brought my V-12 American La France fire engine into Calif., (this was in the mid-1980's - long after all states had adopted the Fed. law creating the VIN system - think that was in the late 60's) they at first refused to register it because it did not have a VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION number. Of course it did have a very similar "builder's patent plate" like Packard had, even stamped with a "Vehicle Number".

The DMV clerk was very insistant that I go back outside and look on the upper dash for the VIN. I explained it was a 1936 fire engine - open cab., so there WAS NO UPPER DASH!

Then she said I would have to write the manufacturer "and get a statement from them that they had violated Federal law for their failure to install a VIN, and then Calif. could, with that letter for their legal authority, stamp a new VIN on the vehicle's upper dash" (she STILL didn't "get it that there IS no "upper dash" on an open-cab 1938 American La France fire engine....!).

I explained that the American La France Co. of Elmira, New York, closed its doors nearly 50 years ago, and the factory had long since been torn down. And of course I explained to her the law creating the VIN system didnt come into existence until some forty years after my fire engine was built.....!

Can you believe this..? Her response was.."THAT'S NO EXCUSE"...

Bottom line - finally got them to accept the "Vehicle Number" on the brass mfg's "build plate"...!

Reminds me of when I registered by Packard on my E-Z Pass account. It ended up as "MAKE - unknown" and "MODEL - Packard" despite my lengthy letter. Who was it, Longfellow(?) who said something like "a foolish consistency is the hobgobblin of feeble minds". Perhaps a motto for some of our civil servants and their programs.

Dear Friend in Australia:

On a First Series Packard Eight the data plate (sometimes called the patent plate)is attached to the inside of the firewall, right above the clutch and brake pedals. On it will be stamped a vehicle number and possibly the name of the dealer who sold the car and the date it was delivered.

On the Second Series Eight 2-36 and 2-43 the data plate is fastened to the engine side of the firewall.

It is possible, of course, that the data plate on your 1-43 has been removed.

Send me your email, and I will communicate with you privately and more fully on the location of other Packard numbers.

Thank you.

JP in NJ.