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Re: Manual brake conversion
#31
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JWL
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May be a bit off topic, but is anyone familiar with brake master cylinders being boosted by the power steering pump? I recall seeing one of these boosters being installed on one of the car restoration programs. Maybe it was on one of the Restoration Garage episodes? One of these boosters may solve the space problem if the car already has power steering.

Posted on: 5/1 11:13
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Re: Manual brake conversion
#32
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HH56
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There may have been a hydraulic system installed on one of the car shows and I know they have also featured the Electroboost setups.

Craig's old Panther site featured the work done by his friend Paul adapting a hydraulic boost unit on a 56 Executive. No idea if the aftermarket places had them so readily available at that time because I think his was adapted from a Continental. At any rate he said it worked very well.

While the Hydro systems are much smaller than the vacuum booster and will most likely fit under the floor of a standard suspension car without too much issue, they still require a ratio or about 4:1 and not the 1:1 BTVs use that so many wanting modern brakes are trying to work around.

Posted on: 5/1 11:57
Howard
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Re: Manual brake conversion
#33
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Chris R
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Quote:

HH56 wrote:
Question I have is where are you going to mount and what type pedal? If there is enough room and you mount in the engine compt down toward the original location and adapt to use the bottom of the original PB pedal that will be 1:1 and converted by the new mechanism to 4:1. If you mount up higher near the air vent and connect to the pedal arm that might not provide enough stroke the way the stock pedal assy is suspended. If you install the 55 manual pedal and mount under the floor that will be around 6:1 and you would not need the extra linkage in the new bracket.


You're right. I keep flip flopping around trying to get to the bottom of this. Really, the best way to approach this is with the master under the floor. Assisted or unassisted, that arrangement will provide the best leverage.

I'll keep moving forward with this setup and see what I can figure out.


Quote:

JeromeSolberg wrote:
You can think of the master cylinder/slave cylinder relationship as a lever, with the lever ratio being the ratio of the areas. The smaller the area, the larger the pressure, but you have to make that up with a long stroke, just like in a long lever arm.
The Bendix Treadle-Vac has a 0.652" (some say 0.655") bore diameter, with a very long stroke, from what I can measure around 3". This is what allowed it to work with the small diameter vacuum booster, and be (marginally) acceptable in the case one lost vacuum.

I tried a Ford Courier dual master cylinder with it's 7" booster. It has a 3/4" bore size. The 7" booster barely fit down there, but all in all the installation looked great. I put some pictures up somewhere on another thread, I need to find it.

However, the pressure ratio is proportional to the square of the bore diameter (area=pi D^2/4) that means it has a pressure ratio of (0.655/0.75)^2 which comes out to about 75% of the original brake pressure.

It was NOT ENOUGH! I drove it and I had to push HARD on the pedal, and my neighbor was of the opinion it was not safe.

I have recently evaluated using the Wildwood TM1 externally mounted dual master cylinder. It has a 0.625" bore, but only a 1.3" stroke, so I don't think it would be acceptable, though I have thought about it.

Wilwood TM1 Master Cylinder, 0.625" bore


Yeah, with the placement of the original setup, and the 1:1 ratio, I think its pretty much impossible to get something to work safely and correctly.

Even for the people that have put a small booster where the original setup was, if vacuum vanishes, they're going to be in a hard place.


Quote:

JWL wrote:
May be a bit off topic, but is anyone familiar with brake master cylinders being boosted by the power steering pump? I recall seeing one of these boosters being installed on one of the car restoration programs. Maybe it was on one of the Restoration Garage episodes? One of these boosters may solve the space problem if the car already has power steering.


There was actually a video on Youtube where a 53 was up on a 2 post lift and the tech was showing the brake setup that they had installed for the customer. It was a GM hydroboost mounted under the floor and was tied into the factory power steering pump. It looked like it was very nicely done. I've tried looking for the video recently but I can't seem to find it for the life of me. If I do, I'll post it here.

EDIT: I found the video.

https://transmissionadapters.com/blogs ... -1953-packard-convertible

Is Glen Kohouts a member here?

-Chris

Posted on: 5/4 9:31
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