Merry Christmas and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
65 user(s) are online (46 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 0
Guests: 65

more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal



(1) 2 »

1954 Clipper 327 Starter
#1
Home away from home
Home away from home

steve828
See User information
Tried to start my '54 Clipper Super 327 no start this morning. Battery fully charged, not even a click from the starter, so I'm thinking it's the starter solenoid.

Question: Solenoid attached to starter with four small bolts, and I can't reach the two bolts nearest the engine block. Is it obvious that I have to remove the starter from the engine block? If so, any tips on getting a wrench on the bolts that attach the starter to the block? I can't seem to physically get a wrench on the top bolt of the starter due to it's proximity to the fire wall.

Any suggestions before I have it towed to the shop? Is there a way to bypass the solenoid and start the engine with the electric start without electrocuting myself or damaging anything?

I thought it was going to be easy to just remove the solenoid from the top of the starter. Silly me.

Thanks and Happy Holidays.

Posted on: 2017/12/15 16:48
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 1954 Clipper 327 Starter
#2
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
It may not be the solenoid. If an Ultramartic there is a neutral safety switch that could be acting up and the 54 ignition switches are also known to suddenly fail at the starter contacts.

What solenoid and starter do you have. The Clipper would normally have a small round solenoid with two screws holding it to the starter, two large posts on the sides for battery and motor connections and a single terminal on top for the starter wire.

If still 6v and someone used an older gear reduction starter with the large pinion shift solenoid, that has 4 screws but a different operation. Those typically have 2 large terminals and usually 2 smaller terminals all on the end. If the car has been converted to 12 v then a pinion shift starter with a large solenoid could be used. Again, 4 screws holding but a single small terminal for the starter connection and a second small terminal for resistor bypass. The 12v Clipper solenoid has 2 terminals on top but also held only by 2 screws.

If you can describe what solenoid you have or better, post a photo the starter may be able to be jumped or at least we can point to some places to check.

Even though the battery is charged make sure the cable terminals are clean and there has been no oxidation build up on the battery posts.

Posted on: 2017/12/15 17:22
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 1954 Clipper 327 Starter
#3
Home away from home
Home away from home

steve828
See User information
Howard,

My 1954 Packard Clipper Two-Door Club sedan has the 327 L-8, 165 horsepower engine. Three speed manual transmission with R11 overdrive. The starter is a Delco-Remy unit. Please see the attached picture below. I appreciate any and all suggestions.

Best Regards,
Warren

Attach file:



jpg  (30.62 KB)
3672_5a34573032777.jpg 640X480 px

Posted on: 2017/12/15 18:15
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 1954 Clipper 327 Starter
#4
Home away from home
Home away from home

steve828
See User information
Howard, sorry I forgot to mention. It is still a 6 volt car with negative ground.

Warren

Posted on: 2017/12/15 18:18
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 1954 Clipper 327 Starter
#5
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
Believe that is a pinion shift starter so the solenoid will need to function to bring the pinion into mesh with the flywheel. It could be the solenoid and the starter will need to be removed to reach the mounting screws. Once the screws are out some plungers will slide out without disconnecting the pinion shift linkage but others may need to disconnect from the linkage before the solenoid can come off..

Before you go farther have the ground side of battery hooked up and use a length of decent size wire same size as the wire that normally connects to the small terminal on top. You want a connection from the hot battery terminal and then just touch the other end of the wire to the small terminal on the top and see if the solenoid comes in. There will be a little spark and if nothing happened before but this time it makes noise or comes in chances are the problem is before the solenoid. If still nothing at all happens it is the solenoid and you will need to remove, & repair or replace.

The solenoid coming in is the most important part but there could still be a problem with the contact plate inside the solenoid being worn and intermittently not starting the motor. The next test would be to reconnect the battery and motor and then use the jumper wire to try again. Make sure the trans is in neutral for this test. If the motor turns the problem would most likely be the ign switch. Those type solenoids draw a considerable amount of current and really stress the ign switch contacts in the 54-56 switches.

Posted on: 2017/12/15 18:44
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 1954 Clipper 327 Starter
#6
Home away from home
Home away from home

DavidPackard
See User information
I recently changed the solenoid on my '54 Cavalier which was equipped with a large format Delco unit. I also tried to remove the hold-down screws, but I was unable to reach the in-board set. I ultimately removed the starter and solenoid as a unit. After that adventure I certainly agree about your comment about the limited excess to the upper starter bolt. At the time I did not own a ratchet box wrench, so I was left with an open-end advancing the bolt 1/12 of a turn per 'bite', flipping the wrench and doing it over and over and over again. All of that may seem like a waste of time, but I'm convinced that the oil and dirt I found between the starter and bell housing was likely to be part of my problem of low cranking speed. After cleaning that interface, changing the solenoid, and a bit of brake clean on the commutator the cranking speed is back where it belongs.

HH56's observation has merit. You can jump from the battery directly to the ignition switch pole of the solenoid. If the starter engages and cranks the engine the solenoid is not likely the problem. You don't need the ignition switch on . . . or even the key. Just make sure the transmission is not 'in-gear'. Chock the wheels and stand to the side of the car with your mini jumper cable. If the car lurches forward the solenoid is OK. If the engine cranks the solenoid is OK. If the solenoid 'clicks' but the engine does not crank you need to dig deeper. If the solenoid does not 'click', you'll also need to dig deeper, but odds are the solenoid is the culprit. I must say I have never encountered a solenoid that didn't 'click' . . . normally the electrical contacts are the area of concern.

The difference between the large frame solenoid and the smaller one is not just the physical size. The difference is whether the Bendix drive is 'self-energizing'. The small solenoid is nothing more than a relay . . . only an electrical switch. Once the starter begins to spin the Bendix self deploys. The larger solenoid is all of that electrical switch functionality plus the mechanical activation of the Bendix drive. If you have this type of starter the lever connecting the solenoid to the Bendix drive will be visible.

The electrical section of the '54 shop manual (available on this site) depicts the 'small solenoid' starter configuration, while the '55 manual (again available on this site) depicts the external linkage configuration and the self-energizing design. Even though the '54 is 6 volt, and the '55 is 12 volt the artwork is OK to use to identify which of the two starter designs you have. I'm still a 'newbie' to all of the Packard configurations, but I believe only the '54 and later Delco starters had the external levers to drive the Bendix into engagement . . . thus the large solenoid. I believe the AutoLite and Delco starters are interchangeable, so over the years your car could have been configured with a different flavor starter, so it is best to look and compare to the shop manual artwork. See the '55-'56 Shop Manual, Section VIII - Electrical, pages 3 and 4.

Your photograph depicts a Delco large solenoid starter. Put the cables back on and run a jumper (14 AWG is fine) from the battery to the small wire connection stud on the solenoid. Are you sure the car has been converted to negative ground, or was that a typo? In either case you want to touch the jumper wire to the battery terminal that IS NOT ground. Again transmission in neutral or a helper holding the clutch pedal to the floor . . . with the brakes on.

Other than the upper starter bolt the task of changing the starter is straight forward.

dp

Posted on: 2017/12/15 19:44
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 1954 Clipper 327 Starter
#7
Home away from home
Home away from home

steve828
See User information
Thanks to all! I will proceed accordingly.
Best Regards,
Warren

Posted on: 2017/12/15 20:32
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 1954 Clipper 327 Starter
#8
Home away from home
Home away from home

John
See User information
Do the '54 cars still use the switch on the carb? Could that be his problem?
John

Posted on: 2017/12/16 17:50
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 1954 Clipper 327 Starter
#9
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
Quote:

ptv wrote:
Do the '54 cars still use the switch on the carb? Could that be his problem?
John

53 was the last year for the accelerator. 54 and after used key start.

Posted on: 2017/12/16 18:15
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 1954 Clipper 327 Starter
#10
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

54Les
See User information
Hi all,
I have a '54 Convertible with the 359 that has a Delco starter. It also has the hard hot start cranking issue that I've seen on various threads. Just got an Auto-Lite starter that is being rebuilt. The rebuilder is having trouble identifying the proper pinion length from his references. (I don't know if pinion is the correct term for the geared shaft that engages the flywheel)

Does anyone know the correct Auto-lite starter numbers (confusing from the parts list on this site) and the correct length of the pinion?

Any info would be much appreciated.

Thanx, Les

Posted on: 2019/8/6 16:36
 Top  Print 
 




(1) 2 »




Search
Recent Photos
1937 115c Touring (11/27/2022)
1937 115c Touring
1937 120C Progress (11/23/2022)
1937 120C Progress
1937 120C Progress (11/23/2022)
1937 120C Progress
Photo of the Day
The Right Garage
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2021, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved