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(1) 2 3 »

Intermittent Starting Issues
#1
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Pipesargent
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This is a tough one folks! All summer long I have had intermittent starting issues and I cannot trace back to what the issues is. I get in the car and when I turn the key and press the excellerator I get nothing not even a failed attempt to turn over. I have replaced the battery thinking it was no good. I have removed the starter and had that cleaned and serviced along with a new 6 volt solenoid. I have tested the generator and that is putting out 7 volts not only at the generator but to the battery as well when engine is brought up from idle. Even checked the voltage regulator and that is good as well. I can tell you I did notice a few oddities that might help. Once when starting the car I got a little puff of white smoke from behind the ignition switch. Also the oil pressure sensor would read a solid 40 at idle then at 35mph drop to 20 and when stopped at a light go up to 80 then back down to 20 when driving. Now it just sits at 20. Btw I did check the oil pressure using a mechanical pressure gauge and all is good. Also when driving at night at idle the headlights are super dim and the dash lights are non exsistant. The blinkers do not work as well, but when I am driving then the headlights brighten up along with the dash lights and the turn signal works. I do know on 6 volt system things get a little dim but I have never experienced this before. I have had the car 3 years and this all started suddenly this spring. I am at a complete loss and even my mechanic is stumped as well. Car has become unreliable even though mechanically she runs like a fine Swiss Watch.

Posted on: 9/1 14:01
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issues
#2
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HH56
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What year and does it still have the stock starting method (prewar it was pushbutton or accelerator, postwar it was accelerator or key) and is it auto or standard trans. As far as you know are the rest of the electrics such as the wiring loom, ign switch, starter switch, and under dash components stock.

Reason for asking is the starting methods varied and where to look could be different. Some models are very simple and direct with essentially one switch while other models have the basic switch plus additional switches or relays in the circuit that must be closed. On one engine/starter combo there is a safety circuit that purposely prevents the starting circuit from doing anything at certain times.

Posted on: 9/1 14:15
Howard
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issues
#3
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Pipesargent
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The car is a 1948 22nd series. Has key and foot accelerator start. Manual transmission with out overdrive. Car was required at some point but all wires both in color and gauge match up exactly to the drawings. Hope this helps…. Ask any and all questions the more the closer to solving this riddle which is probably something incredibly simple but over looked.

Posted on: 9/1 15:47
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issues
#4
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kunzea
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Wiring diagram at https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/dow ... -9%20%2022nd%20Series.pdf. Circuit goes from ignition switch to carburetor to starter solenoid. Trace the voltage through the circuit. On my 1951 there is a metal ball in the carburetor that is held up out of the circuit by manifold vacuum when the engine is running. Make sure the ball falls down whenever the engine isn't running.

Posted on: 9/1 16:12
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issues
#5
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JeromeSolberg
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Every once in a while it seems like something gets stuck (probably the little ball) and the accelerator starter doesn't work, for this reason I wired up a button to the starter solenoid under the dash.

Posted on: 9/1 16:20
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issues
#6
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HH56
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Since you said you had a new solenoid it is presumably the 288 engine and not the 356 so no starter safety circuit to contend with.

With a standard transmission there is only the ignition switch and carburetor starter switch in the starter circuit. Power from the stock ign switch is fed from the GA terminal which also feeds almost everything else in the car. A separate wire goes directly from ign to the carb switch and then on to the solenoid.

I don't remember if this is the car an aftermarket ign switch was installed in but the 22nd series stock ign switch is fairly robust with very few issues. Like everything though it is possible the ign switch has started to fail. If that were the case the typical symptom is you turn the key on and nothing seems to happen -- no gauges, no starter, no radio etc or else everything works for a bit then suddenly quits. Wiggle the ign key or turn off and back on again and everything works again. With the puff of smoke something in the switch cannot be ruled out. If it is an aftermarket switch most of those available today are overstressed when used in 6v cars with their higher current requirements -- particularly where one terminal carries all the load.

The gauges are all powered from the same wire off the ign switch GA terminal and do not have an instrument voltage regulator so if the temp and fuel gauges seem to work OK the most likely issue with the oil gauge is the sender. 22-23 series gauges require senders unlike any other year Packards so new ones can be a bit hard to find.

If the ign switch is good then the only other things to look at is the wiring between ign and carb switch having a possibly poor connection or the carb starter switch itself and how it is activated. The switch relies on the accelerator linkage being adjusted properly so the switch is moved enough to make a good solid contact. If the linkage is a bit out of adjustment it is possible the pedal is hitting the floor or something in the carb is at a limit and the switch is barely or sometimes not making contact. There is also a small steel ball inside the carb and sw assy that actually activates the switch. It has been known to stick up in its passage if the carb is really dirty. The switch does carry a fairly high current when the solenoid is first energized. The actual contact is a fairly small piece of spring like metal which is forced up between two other contacts connected to the screws. It is possible the contacts have arced or the thin metal has been overheated and lost spring tension so does not make a solid connection sometimes. There are also some tiny shims inside the switch that ensure the contact moves the proper amount for a good connection when the linkage is activated.

To narrow things down or completely rule out the carb switch you could add a temporary pushbutton in parallel with the carb switch. Wire it between GA and the wire on the carb switch coming from ign sw. Use that for awhile and if no more problems at least you know where to look. If you still have problems then look to the ign switch.

Here is a bit on adjustments and how the carb switch is activated.

Attach file:



jpg  Carb switch_Page_1.jpg (187.46 KB)
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jpg  Carb switch_Page_3.jpg (155.79 KB)
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jpg  Carb switch_Page_4.jpg (119.38 KB)
209_631126cdad75b.jpg 754X1160 px

jpg  Carb switch_Page_5.jpg (32.89 KB)
209_631126dfe02e0.jpg 754X331 px

Posted on: 9/1 16:38
Howard
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issues
#7
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DavidPackard
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Let’s have a discussion about the symptom “Once when starting the car I got a little puff of white smoke from behind the ignition switch.”

dp

Posted on: 9/1 16:44
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issues
#8
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Pipesargent
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Thank you so much on this info. I will start looking there and see what I find. Will keep you posted.0

Posted on: 9/1 17:07
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issues
#9
Not too shy to talk
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Pipesargent
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Yea that concerns me as well. Not sure why that happened and it occurred right after I was having issues of not start. Then suddenly I after trying again with the peddle it started and that is when I noticed the puff of white smoke. Hasn’t done it since but car continues to randomly not start whether it’s been running and engine still work or engine cold you never know when you are going to get nothing. Not even the click of a solenoid or anything.

Posted on: 9/1 17:10
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Re: Intermittent Starting Issues
#10
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kunzea
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I've always pushed the pedal to the floor every time when starting. I'd think that when cold the automatic choke would close and require the pull-off when starting. I believe this pull-off occurs at the end of the linkage travel. Do the fully-opened throttle plates impede starting when warm? I believe the throttle stop is adjusted where the plates are fully vertical (90 degrees?) and the pull-off is engaged. If the starter should engage not less than 30 degrees and not more than 45 degrees I've really been doing this wrong. Just push the pedal enough for the starter to engage when warm?

Posted on: 9/1 17:29
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