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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#51
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JD in KC
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West,
Thanks very much. Hard to believe as it may be, I think I am going to be able to salvage all the window frames that I have. They will never, ever be mistaken for factory fresh but I think I can make them presentable. This Packard has had a hard life and is only going to be shown locally at cruise-ins, and generic car shows. While I am attempting to keep it as original as possible, it is not going to get a trailer queen restoration.
It's probably best to save those rare window frames for a less buggered Packard (especially if they are in really good shape).

P.S. She's going to get both wide whitewalls AND sidemounts!

Posted on: 2011/1/31 13:49
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#52
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JD in KC
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Well... what I expected to be a several week project turned out to be a whole Winter project. It was a project that I could do indoors with the DVD player going and a roaring fire in the fireplace so it all worked out fine. Anyway, the worst feature (I hope) of the '41 Limousine is now fixed and behind me!

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Posted on: 2011/3/26 16:20
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#53
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Guscha
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Dave, I have a question related to the fluid flow when open a window. In marked contrast to its Muscovite cousins the pump of a 180 hasn't a reverse running. The spring power forces the fluid back to the supply tank. Which route leads to the tank after leaving the door cylinder and passing through the first electromagnetic valve? Is there a kind of bypass valve to dodge around the pump?

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Posted on: 2011/8/13 7:18
The story of ZIS-110, ZIS-115, ZIL-111 & Chaika GAZ-13 on www.guscha.de
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#54
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JD in KC
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Gerd,

The Auto-lite pump motor does reverse to lower the windows. There are two solenoids, one for up and one for down. It was the later post-war pumps that were single direction. I think possibly the different design of the pump gears allowed the back-flow of fluid with the post-war models. You are correct that the design of the pre-war pump which is geared like an oil pump will not allow a back-flow of fluid unless the pump is running in reverse.

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Posted on: 2011/8/13 8:18
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#55
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Guscha
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I see and now the scales fell from my eyes as you already mentioned: "...and in reverse direction will produce a vacuum of 15 to 18 inches of mercury...". I obviously intermingled yours and Howard's then explanations.
Is a contactor installed in your car that changes the direction of pump rotation?

Quote:
...There are two solenoids, one for up and one for down...

Dave, could you be so kind to expand on. All of the so far shown cylinders in the potpourri of at least two different systems seem to work in-line (see #1 at the pic). Such kind of solenoid valves (#2) I don't know. Are they interconnected to work in-line? The other solenoid switches (#3) are akin to the Soviet devices.
The two cylinders on the right-hand side looking like post-war production.

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Posted on: 2011/8/13 9:51
The story of ZIS-110, ZIS-115, ZIL-111 & Chaika GAZ-13 on www.guscha.de
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#56
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Guscha
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Or is #2 the reverser?

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Posted on: 2011/8/13 10:21
The story of ZIS-110, ZIS-115, ZIL-111 & Chaika GAZ-13 on www.guscha.de
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#57
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HH56
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Gerd, is this the solenoid you posted last year with the tube connecting the centers of the two?

Posted on: 2011/8/13 10:47
Howard
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#58
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Guscha
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Howard, my dear fellow, it looks like it, yes.

Edit: In order to guard against confusion the "green" solenoid is Dave's but it is highly probable that the "green" solenoid has the same function like the one that I posted last year. Therefore my answer was "yes". Sorry, the joy of discovery caused this imprecise answer

Dave, no further questions at the moment and sorry for the field trip. The stage is again yours.

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Posted on: 2011/8/13 10:59
The story of ZIS-110, ZIS-115, ZIL-111 & Chaika GAZ-13 on www.guscha.de
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#59
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HH56
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The one with the tube is mechanically interlocked so the pump can't get signals to go both directions at once. I can't see for sure if the green one has extra terminals but it does not seem to have any at the end of one solenoid. I would guess it is similar to the 41 version electrically. That had an extra relay in the circuit to the second solenoid which opened it's contacts and prevented the second solenoid from operating at the same time. The 42 version had a set of contacts in the end of one of the solenoids to open when that one was on and prevent the second solenoid from energizing. If you have not already downloaded the 1940 service letterhttps://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/SC/SL-VOL14NO19.pdf, that gives a mechanical description of how the Packard system operated. Electrical schematics are scattered in different places.

Posted on: 2011/8/13 11:23
Howard
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Re: JD's 1941 180 Limousine
#60
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JD in KC
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Yes, that pretty much sums it up. My system has a separate relay to prevent the up/down switches both sending current to the motor at the same time. The two solenoids are not interconnected, only the common ground connects the two.

Posted on: 2011/8/13 14:38
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