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Crazy idea...
#1
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Ken_P
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I have the frame on my '37 115c completely stripped for sandblasting. It's strong! I had a crazy idea for a Packard mod.

I think a nice cruising Packard could be made by swapping a cummins diesel into a Jr Six, 115, or 8. '41 might be the ideal year, because you could fit a much larger radiator behind the grill. I think you could even use the stock front suspension with two mods: heavier duty coil springs and probably a power steering box. I think the ideal Cummins would be the late model common rail diesel, so it was quieter.

The main challenges:

Trying to figure out an exhaust that wasn't overly restrictive without having a sewer pipe coming out of the back of your car.

Cooling.

Brakes would probably need to be updated as well, and probably the rear end- not sure what the torque specs on the rear ends are. Although, without towing, you could probably get away with it.

I'm not planning on the mods, but it makes a fun thought experiment. Any thoughts?

Posted on: 2011/6/2 19:48
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation. Project blog / Registry

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partial restoration, sold Hershey 2015 Project blog / Registry
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Re: Crazy idea...
#2
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Rusty O\'Toole
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That's just crazy enough to work! Especially if you start with this car:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1934-PACKARD-EIGHT-HOTROD-350-CHEVY-/120725619673#ht_17411wt_1167?clk_rvr_id=237182382144

The link is to an Ebay listing for a 1934 (actually 1935) Packard Eight sedan. It was hot rodded years ago with a Chev engine, Munsters interior and other embarrassing mods.

That car, restored to (more like) original with a Diesel engine, would give you a unique tour car that you could drive at about half the fuel cost of an original eight.

The heavy models would be better able to handle the bulk and weight of a diesel, and benefit more from the fuel economy.

There are 2 obscure facts that make this idea intriguing. One is, diesel engines first came to prominence in the early 30s. There was much speculation that the car of the future would be diesel powered. And Packard was working on a light weight diesel aircraft engine at the time. So, it is not out of the question that Packard considered making a diesel model at that time.

One more obscure fact. The first diesel car in America was a big Packard sedan converted to diesel by Clessie Cummins using one of his boat engines. So there is more history to the Packard/diesel connection.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 20:53
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Re: Crazy idea...
#3
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Rusty O\'Toole
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My guess would be that the Cummins engine would be about the same size and weight as a senior eight, or maybe a little smaller. It should also have similar power delivery characteristics and more outright HP. The original suspension, radiator, and steering should be more than adequate. Diesels burn fuel efficiently and do not put out as much heat as gas engines.

If you could fit the engine to the car with a suitable transmission and rear axle the rest should be a cinch.

Posted on: 2011/6/2 21:00
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Re: Crazy idea...
#4
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55PackardGuy
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Nice idea. I just wonder what a late-model Cummins would set you back. That might be a tough one to overcome. The exhaust is, I think, easy. Just use the standard pipe through to a few feet from the rear bumper, then attach a split tailpipe, as commonly done on single-exhaust cars for a "sporty" look. It would keep the tailgaters guessing what exactly was going on, especially if they got a whiff of the fumes.

Posted on: 2011/6/9 23:54
Guy

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Re: Crazy idea...
#5
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Mike
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With a diesel you'll want more breathing than a gas engine on the exhaust side, i'd run 2.5 inch minimum, maybe 3 inch oval and then split it in the back into something normal looking like 55PG said.

Also like he said, there's the cost of a cummins, and all the accessories (fuel injection system, etc. Those are mechanical right on the engine right?)

If you wanted to be top of the line like packard intended, find a caterpillar engine. If you want to be different and quirky, find a detroit diesel two stroke

Posted on: 2011/6/10 8:02
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Re: Crazy idea...
#6
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flackmaster
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Ken - I know of a 39 sedan that is being fitted with a 6BTA, and the project is going extremely slowly. The 6BTA is an extremely heavy engine, much more so than the Packard engine, now add a transmission and the weight is a big concern. And say goodbye to the crossmember. I have another friend who did some serious measuring for a 4BT, which was a much better fit, and easily available with a GM TH350 or better, however the power band really is not that impressive, and again goodbye to the crossmember. Now a 3.7 or 3.9 Isuzu...
That said, stop inhaling the VOC's from the cleaning products. The Packard Six is a well suited engine to the car - if you really want to do some modification, focus on the rear axle. Right now you have 4.36 gears and to really enjoy highway speeds, 3.9 or lower is required.
If you want your Cummins fix, head over to TDR1.com, then come back here and talk Packard!

DAF

Posted on: 2011/6/10 9:00
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Re: Crazy idea...
#7
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Ken_P
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Yeah, the weight was a concern of course. I'm not going to modify my 115 at all, I was just bench racing one night. I think the way to go would be find a rodded out Super 8 like the one Rusty had a link for earlier in the thread. The problems with the mod:

Frame mods would most likely be required.

Keeping it cool especially with an inter-cooler might be challenging.

The size of the tranny might necessitate firewall and floorboard mods.

All those mods are certainly possible, but I would hate to hack up a Packard that much, especially prewar, unless it was one that was already ruined.

As far as the engine, not sure what the follow on the the 6BTA is titled, but it is a common rail diesel motor, which eliminates the mechanical injectors and the heavy equipment sound.

A CAT diesel would be cool, but perhaps harder to fit a car transmission to.

Another advantage of the Cummins is that you buy a rolled Dodge pickup and salvage the engine, tranny, computers, partial wiring harness, etc. etc. It would cost a pretty penny, but the 10k there could easily be spent if you went a little crazy building a big block and tranny.

Obviously a big money project that I'll 99% never undertake, but it is fun to dream.

Posted on: 2011/6/10 19:21
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation. Project blog / Registry

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partial restoration, sold Hershey 2015 Project blog / Registry
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Re: Crazy idea...
#8
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55PackardGuy
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Quote:

cortcomp wrote:
find a detroit diesel two stroke


Speaking of a dream, this has long been an unspoken dream of mine. A 6V, 4V, or in-line 4 Jimmy diesel in something-- anything. Talk about guts and glory. But I've never looked into weight problems, or how you'd ever fit such a tall engine in anything but a truck-- hey, but no computer! Double the power strokes! Whining blower! What could be better? Even the 4 sounds like a V12.

Let us all continue to dream our dreams. They can can sometimes lead to spectacular realities. Like the '55 Chevy that an Aussie put a Merlin V12 into. Yeeeow! That's the thing about Aussies, they go "walkabout," have outrageous visions, then actually DO the thing they dreamt up. I think it also takes a lot of this:

Posted on: 2011/6/10 21:51
Guy

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Re: Crazy idea...
#9
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Paul_K
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I was going to put a 6V53 in my Bronco... Here is one in an old GMC...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NJmB1F2mdE&NR=1

Posted on: 2011/6/15 10:30
IF YOU DO NOT HAVE FLAMES COMING OUT OF THE STACK< YOU ARE NOT RUNNING TO YOUR FULL POTENTIAL.
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Re: Crazy idea...
#10
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55PackardGuy
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Paul K,

That must be a "Full Sized" Bronco! All I got with the link was a Bugatti crash, though.

Posted on: 2011/6/15 23:39
Guy

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