Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Earlier today, Wade the mate helping me with my '41 120 Coupe, told me the distributor I had removed from the car has dual points! On checking, it was a Delco-Remy 1110811 9J19. Then followed a search of the manuals and parts books we had, which advised that '41 120's had a single point Autolite distributor. Couldn't find any mention of dual points but our reference material petered out about 46/47.

In the Chat Room later I mentioned this to Eric (Turbopackman) and although he didn't know off-hand he soon came up with an answer "1947-52 Packards 2200,2300,200,250,300 w/dist #1110811&25".

So it seems later post-war dual point distributors fit the pre-war 120 engines!

I've still got a question even though my original query was answered before it even made it to this Forum. The question being, is there any advantage to having the dual points?

Attach file:

---

  (35.05 KB)


  (20.45 KB)


  (28.64 KB)


  (22.24 KB)

Dual point conversion kits were pretty popular items some decades back for "hopping" up performance; one tradename I recall is "DynaPlate" which we installed in our 54 Hudson and a number of Packards. Was there an improvement in performance - yes but slight. But to my knowledge the last Packard that had factory dual points was the 1939 Twelve. Eights and Super Eights used dual points, in 33-34 with dual coils, and with single coils thru 1936 and perhaps a year or two later. I'm sure the distributor you have was modified with a conversion kit at some point.

The dual point setup with dual coils (33-34) worked entirely different that the later dual point "hop up" kits; in these cases you also had a double-ended rotor and each set of points controlled only 4 cylinders with the firing order alternating back and forth across the distributor cap as alternate ends of the rotor fired sequentially. The later setups like Chrysler in the 60s etc. is "conventional" dual point setup and used the second set of points to allow the coils to energize almost immediately after discharging by closing the primary to the coil with the second set, thus not having to wait for the first set to close. Thus only one set was actually responsible for ignition and timing, and the other provided an increase in dwell. In the case of the 33-34, both sets needed to be timed individually, and thus synchronized.

Mal,

An ignition coil is an electro-magnet; an electro-magnet that induces its magnetic field into another set of windings to step up voltage, and reduce amperage. This process is known as mutual induction. An electro-magnet only takes a fraction of a second to energize, reaching full magnetic strength.

Where dual points came in is when performance V-8's began turning high RPM's say 5500 ? 6000 + revs. As RPM's increase, the time (dwell) for the coil to build full field (and best production of spark) is diminishing. As Owen said, the leading set of points breaks, collapsing the magnetic field, inducing the secondary windings transforming voltage amperage values and discharging. The trailing set of points are almost instantly closing to allow the primary coil to begin building the magnetic field, achieving full electro-magnetic saturation.

On a high RPM performance engine such as a V-8, maybe. On a 2600 rpm flat head 8, no. If the coil has time to fully saturate, there is no advantage.

I would investigate the availability of a pertronics electronic conversion (some PI Packard clubs offer as club projects for sale) because points made today are just not what they used to be. The rubbing blocks are not lasting so long, and the contacts don't seem to last so well. NOS sets do pop up on eBay from time to time.

Best of luck,
Jim

Quote:

Dave,

One thing I didn't mention in my original post is that the plate is marked "DYNA-FLYTE", so is this an aftermarket item? Because when Eric came up with the reference of "1947-52 Packards 2200,2300,200,250,300 w/dist #1110811&25" I didn't think further about that marking.

YES, Dyna-Flyte, noy Dyna-Plate -- thanks for jogging my memory. Maybe at this age I should be thrilled just to get it half-right. Our Hudson was a stock car set up for the 1/4 mile, a 54 Hornet cpe. Max rpm was about 4600 rpm, I don't recall the exact improvement with the dual points, but iy wasn't much.

I had a dual pint Mallory on my '66 Corvette and really can't say that it was an improvement over the stock Delco one points set up. It would rev easily to 6000 with either distributor without a hic up.

Quote:

I would have to agree, with good quality points there is no problem.

Mal,
Your dual points set up is just a plate installed in the stock distributor. It sounds like someone replaced the whole distributor with a latter one.

Your options are:

1. Run dual points (no advantage in this application what so ever)

2. Find the stock ignition plate (or correct distributor by distributor # and application)

3. Remove the trailing ignition points, and run as normal single point setup. (yes, that will work)

Cheers!
Jim

Thanks everyone for your input and advice. Now have to make a decision as to which way to go.

Again