Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

I do know where to look for the body tags on some of the pre-war cars :)

If your speaking of the Briggs body number tag, prewar cars with the possible exception of the 41-42 Clippers don't have any as Briggs didn't build the bodies. They have (up thru 1950) a "patent plate" with a space for the "vehicle number" and other information that varied with the year. Look on the engine side of the cowl except for much earlier cars, in the 20s and back from there for a few years. Some of them will have the tag on the passenger side of the cowl above the brake/clutch pedals. If the patent plate is missing, except in very few cases it's not possible to recover the VN except perhaps from Roster Keepers or old documentation from prior owners. Generally trying old DMV records is an exercise in futility. Any high-value prewar car with a replica patent plate should be given extra scrutiny as mongrels can be common. I personally wouldn't even consider a high-value prewar car that didn't have the original patent plate. Ditto for high-value postwar cars that don't have a VN plate, or have a replica of same. That's just my own opinion, I wouldn't want a bogus or mongrel car. So, back on topic, a photo of the VN or patent plate and Briggs tag can be important when discussing value.

I've bought 3 classics in the past 2 years, and I am always looking everywhere for cars, always reading the forums here, watching Barrett Jackson, Mecum, Hemmimngs, the Velocity Channel TV show "What's My Car Worth?', "Chasing Classic Cars", going to car shows, cruise nights, etc. After so long, you get some idea of a general value and car's rarity, etc.

What I've learned on this site, and I've seen it posted here before is it all boils down to what one person will give and what one person will take, regardless of the price a book places on something. I've bought from a dealer before (my '53) and I think I paid a fair to high price which means to profit he paid someone less than that. If dealers can pay less than "full value", you and I can too. Cash is King. I've learned that too.

As my earlier post indicated, there are resources available for you to discover for yourself what reasonable classic car values are. Hagerty is one of them. You can even do a VIN lookup there. If you are serious, you should at least have the VIN on possible acquisitions- it's easy to ask the seller, and if they can't supply it you may want to consider looking elsewhere.

In fact, it would be much better for you to utilize these sites yourself, as you should have first hand information on each vehicle. It's easy, and fun!

Aren't the VINs for these Packards their engine serial number? Hagerty has all the VIN numbers for these old Packards? I've never heard that before--(which doesn't mean much :)

That's not really correct. In some of the very very early years the VN and motor number matched, and in 1955/56 the VN was also used as the motor # with a few odd-ball exceptions. Some states, CA and a few others, have chosen to ignore manufacturer's VN and title with motor numbers, but that's an exception. The description over the space on the patent plate was titled "vehicle number" and was not the motor number except for those very early cars as noted.

Starting in 1932 Packard adopted a method known as BTPPN numbering, standing for "body type plus production number". The first set of digits, separated by a hyphen or space, identified the year, model or chassis, and body type; the second set identified the sequential production production for that exact combination of year, model or chassis, and body style.

For example, with VN 2252-2154, 2252 translates to 22nd series (1948) Custom 8 4-door sedan and 2154 means the 154th 22nd series Custom 8 4-door sedan produced (sequence numbering started at 2001 in that year).

With 703-579, 703 translates to a 1934 Eight model 1100 4-door sedan on the 129" wheelbase (there were 3 wheelbases for the Eight, and each had 4-door sedans) and 579 translates to the 569th made (sequence numbering started at 11 for that year).

No secret to any of this numbering system data, it's well documented and available in many locations. You might consider buying a good Packard book and doing some reading. The Turnquist book has very good appendeces for vehicle numbering for the true bona-fide Classic years, and the Kimes-edited book is more comprehensive as it covers the entire Packard history. Despite all that the internet offers, a little book-learning is still viable (and usually without as much misinformation).

I think what I meant was that the VIN on Packards isn't like a VIN now that relates to that specific car not just the specific model.

I guess I didn't express myself clearly; the Packard BTPPN system both identifies the model/year AND the specific car.

And, probably trivial, but modern govt' mandated numbers are VINs (vehicle identification numbers) but back in Packard's day the were VNs (no "I'), (vehicle numbers).

Quote:
Rich, how true. Thank you for saying this.
I believe to know someting about the volume of energy input and time exposure to search the literature and the web to help fellow Packard enthusiasts. It makes me proud that our members didn't become tired to provide you with a series of 21 price information. Price inquiry number 22 came accompanied by "I need to decide today". I thought that could be the right moment to look inward and take a breath. No offense meant!

I guess I should have been more specific, I needed/wanted to decide "today" because of another competitive buyer.