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20's Packard Engine Identification - newbie/advice
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
12/11 4:16:48
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 11
Hello,

I have a Packard 8-cylinder engine complete. Photo attached.

The engine number is #167004

I reviewed your helpful PDF and trying to discern if it is a standard production engine or if a speedster (6th series). Perhaps I'm not reading the PDF properly.

Thanks for any light you can shed on this. (also, please make no reference to the sheet tin/rad in the photo - that body (non-Packard)has long since been sold off). Thanks!

-Wes

Attach file:



jpg  IMG_20160417_173000095.jpg (821.41 KB)
188170_5c6b1fd172efc.jpg 802X452 px

Posted on: 2/18 13:13:09
_________________
-Willie Paul
52 Packard 200 Coupe "La Carrera" tribute
26 Packard 136" chassis with 29 HP Eight engine
62 Triumph TR4 roadster custom
95 Ferrari 456 GT manual
70 BMW r75/5 "scrambler"
04 Mercedes g500
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Re: 20's Packard Engine Identification - newbie/advice
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 15683
Interesting question.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable of the 6th Series Speedsters (there aren't many who are) and have sent your photo to someone who is, we'll see what he has to say. In the meantime, certainly the motor number suggests a 626 Speedster motor is possible. If you'll indulge me a few questions which may or may not be relevant, are the spark plugs 7/8" or 18mm threads? Do you know the part number of the camshaft? If the motor is still associated with its original differential, what's the ratio?

Posted on: 2/18 15:45:55
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Re: 20's Packard Engine Identification - newbie/advice
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10229
Looking at the Engine Serial Number Reference document on Site it appears there's some "confusion" with the Engine Numbers for the 6th Series Speedsters overlapping with those for the Custom and Deluxe Eights. The number quoted, 167004, is one of the numbers in the overlap area.

Note - Click on pic for a larger image

Attach file:



png  6th Series Engine Numbers.png (544.00 KB)
226_5c6b4e6c92d18.png 1366X768 px

Posted on: 2/18 16:32:13
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
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Re: 20's Packard Engine Identification - newbie/advice
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 15683
Mal, I don't see the source cited for those motor numbers for the 640/645 but they don't agree with other sources (including Turnquist) that give a starting number for the 640/645 as 167,013.

Not saying one or the other is correct but when data is in conflict, documentation like our chart should cite the source and note the controversy.

Posted on: 2/18 16:50:10
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Re: 20's Packard Engine Identification - newbie/advice
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/5/20 1:34
From Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
Posts: 10229
Dave,

In that case looks like the Engine Serial Number Reference chart needs a correction, which would remove any confusion. Could be why the question was asked?

Posted on: 2/18 17:17:21
_________________
Mal
/o[]o\
====


"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

'38 Eight Sedan 38's are great! (Sold July 2009)
'41 120 Club Coupe 41's the One! (Sold October 2017)
'48 2222 "Almost" Rolling Limo Chassis and Engine (Sold Sept 2019)
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

Project Blogs:
'41 120 Club Coupe - Locked
Wade's Workshop - Locked
'50 Eight Touring Sedan

What's this? >>>>>> FAQ - Add your Packard to the Owners Registry
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Re: 20's Packard Engine Identification - newbie/advice
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 15683
A correction would not be appropriate until we determine which data is correct, Turnquist's or the unnamed source used in our chart. In the absence of determining which is correct (pretty likely in this case), you really have to give equal visibility to both possibilities and note the sources of the data.

Posted on: 2/18 17:57:36
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Re: 20's Packard Engine Identification - newbie/advice
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/11/16 10:51
From Dayton
Posts: 2278
Interesting. I've never heard anybody state that the Turnquist numbers are incorrect, or questionable. I will look forward to hearing the reply from the expert that Dave has sent the info to.

There was a "barn find" 1929 Packard that was for sale a few years ago, and I believe it was discussed on PackardInfo.com at the time. It was in Pennsylvania, and had a non-Packard (possibly Lincoln) modified Judkins body on it (if I remember correctly), and I think the chassis was also either not Packard, or from a different year. It was determined at that time that the engine had a Speedster number on it. Is this the same engine?

In the 1929 Packard Speedster world, there are only two known authentic 1929 Speedsters that exist (a phaeton and a roadster), plus a third that has been rebodied.

Because there is VERY LITTLE difference between the Speedster engine and the Deluxe/Custom Eight engine, there doesn't seem to be much value difference. In addition, the value of the car(s) is probably not much different than that of a Deluxe Eight dual cowl phaeton, mainly because they aren't nearly as attractive, and because no one outside the Packard Speedster world would know it's unique.

EDITED DUE TO INFORMATION THAT DAVID BROUGHT TO LIGHT IN A LATER POST.

Posted on: 2/19 5:20:08
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Re: 20's Packard Engine Identification - newbie/advice
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/9/14 15:46
From Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 359
West-
If i remember correctly the BARN FIND ur thinking of had a body mfg for RR sitting on the PACKARD chassis.Thought it would be a great find to build up a correct Thompson Special/Glasscock Speedster which i believe was built on a 29 Speedster chassis.

https://www.packardclub.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1673

Posted on: 2/19 6:49:33
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Re: 20's Packard Engine Identification - newbie/advice
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/11/16 10:51
From Dayton
Posts: 2278
Yes. That sounds more correct.
I wonder what happened to it, and is it the same as the one that Wes has posted above???

Posted on: 2/19 6:56:44
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Re: 20's Packard Engine Identification - newbie/advice
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/9/14 15:46
From Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 359

Posted on: 2/19 7:35:06
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