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Hello,

I was wondering what the main differences are between these, and if you are familiar with both, which you prefer and why. Or if there are specific advantages to one over the other.

I thought the PC to have more presence but the the previous owner of my car had clearly been a member of the PIC for many years. I have about a foot or more of back issues of the PIC magazine on my bookshelf from him.

Insights appreciated.

I think membership preference depends more on what you want from your Packard. Here is my take on the differences while I was still active but for reasons mentioned below, may be different now. Am sure there will be other opinions. I was a member of both for many years but let them both go as I got older.

It may have changed over the last few years as a lot of the old timers and founding members of both clubs have aged or passed on. They both have somewhat new direction but I believe at the beginning up until maybe 10 years ago PI was more "keep the car on the road to drive and tour" oriented while PAC was more into the show and stay pure to the way Packard built them no matter the cost or difficulty.

I believe PI was started in the early 60s when a group based in Southern California fell out with the PAC leadership of the time over the club direction. As long as it was done decently and halfway discreetly PI was always more forgiving of mods and the use of brand X or aftermarket parts to keep the car on the road. At PAC, up until maybe 10-15 years ago modification was a bad word and even a mention or thoughts of a brand X part in a Packard let alone any how to instructions in a forum post at the PAC site would get the post deleted. As an aside, that action along with some also overly aggressive moderation at the AACA Packard site was one of the reasons Kev started this site.

As to mods, one of the PI members developed the first Ultramatic replacement by figuring out how to install a TorqueFlite. The club embraced and heavily promoted that change and even built and sold kits thru the club. They then went on to support and develop one of the first V8 oil pump conversions as well as sponsored and directly made a lot of other repro parts. As we know now the pump mod was not the absolute fix but it did become popular. They also published several interchange catalogs listing known brand X items that would fit in Packards. Have heard but can not say as fact they also monetarily supported some regions efforts to make repro parts as well. With the changes in leadership that club sponsored repro parts direction seems to have gone away.

To the best of my knowledge, PAC has mostly stayed away from directly getting involved with repro parts but does support their regions endeavors. They do have good repro literature availability but only for hard copies.

PI has their yearly membership meet in Southern California and usually sponsors a long driving tour although with all the personnel changes, not sure how often those are still held. I believe PAC only does the annual meet in conjunction with the various regions but not sure if they do yearly tours as a club sponsored event or if those are left to the regions too.

I hadn't heard anything regarding PI for a long time, and their website a few years back wasn't promising. I wasn't sure if they were still around.

I'm glad to see that they are, and their website has been updated and is much better. I've been a PAC club member for several years and may join PI as well. I'm not sure how active they are up here in the PNW though.

-Kevin

Sound like a broken record praising Howard's insight, and at the risk of embarrassing him with another well deserved commendation, the gentleman deserves it. Years ago, decades ago, I had friends in both clubs, and HH56 sums it succinctly, perfectly, including his observation of the AACA's over zealous monitoring leading to BigKev's terrific Packard Info,
there surely being no more upbeat, expansive, thorough, well mannered exchange, marque support group extant.

In fact, many of us have no need of clubs thanks to Packard Info's "one-stop shopping."

Thanks Howard, Kevin, and Mike for your thoughts. I was originally asking because the Packards of Pittsburgh FB group is trying to revive the Allegheny Packards and I am considering joining the PAC for that reason. Especially considering the PIC annual meet is in Southern CA, 2000 miles away I think the PAC (presence at Hershey) and the Allegheny region will be more relevant for me. Very useful info however regarding repro's. From time to time I look through the stack of back issues I have.

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Packards International’s abbreviation has actually always been PI, not PIC. That said, some years ago we went to a vintage railroad museum in the SF Bay Area to find a PI meet there so, of course, I went over to see the cars. Although I made no mention of PAC, the couple people I talked to seemed unfriendly.

The biggest difference between the two clubs is in the publications. PAC produces 16 publications a year - the monthly "Cormorant News Bulletin" and the quarterly magazine "The Packard Cormorant". PI produces only a quarterly magazine.

Packards International sadly is a shell of its former self.

Many former P.I. Chapters have turned into P.A.C. chapters in the last ten years.