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Re: Wade's Workshop
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Forum Ambassador
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"Also have some feelers out for a rebuilt '41 120 fuel pump which I've seen around the traps"
The rebuilt fuel pump has been located, thanks to NS and PT, and will be the backup plan in case of problems with the one currently off the Coupe.
Posted on: 2016/12/31 4:07
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Mal
/o[]o\ ==== ![]() Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia "Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche. 1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD 1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD 1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD 1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD What's this? ![]() Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry! Here's how! Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com |
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Re: Wade's Workshop
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Home away from home
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There is no screen on the pickup in the tanks on these cars??
John
Posted on: 2016/12/31 13:05
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Re: Wade's Workshop
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Forum Ambassador
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No. AFAIK, Packard never had a screen in the tank. The outlet tube is just an open ended piece of tubing pointed downward with the opening in a triangular depression in the bottom of tank. The open end is approx 3/16" or so above the bottom of tank.
There was either a mesh screen or a series of stacked plates with openings that lined up and acted like a screen located in the bottom bowl of the fuel pump. If the customer wanted the option, a ceramic filter could be added after the pump. Most of the carbs also had a fine mesh screen at their inlet. Here is part of a photo Ross posted showing the end of the fill pipe and the outlet tube location in a 51-56 tank. Earlier tanks were similar with just different locations depending on the shape of the tank.
Posted on: 2016/12/31 14:18
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Howard
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Re: Wade's Workshop
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Home away from home
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Forget any theories about bad gas or deteriorating gas station delivery hose, this is crud from your car. The reason I say crud instead of rust is it could be old tank sealer dissolved by the new ethanol/gas.
Screens on tank pickups are a rather new development, in the 60's I think
Posted on: 2016/12/31 14:34
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Re: Wade's Workshop
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Tuesday 24th January, 2017
Progress has been slow owing to a number of factors: 1) Having the carb cleaned and checked by Carburettor Service Company, picked it up last week. 2) Wade rebuilding the fuel pump, picked it up on the 10th as Wade and Gina were on their way south to Canberra. 3) Bought a) fuel line from Repco and b) 58mm reinforced hose and heavy duty hose clamps from Pirtek. 4) Heat. Although the Southern Highlands is supposed to be cooler, it's not that way this summer with plenty of days approaching 100! 5) Various intrusions as life takes its course. Anyway, after all that, determined that Saturday & Sunday, 21st and 22nd, would see the Coupe running again. The fuel tank had been dropped out, the combined pickup/sending unit removed and inspected the interior of the tank for crud. Nothing visible and the inside still looks as clean as when the same was done in 2008. However with the mud that had gathered in the inline fuel filter before the carb thought it best to flush the tank anyway. This involved about 2 litres(about 2 US quarts) of fresh fuel being swished around then emptied out. Result being that more fine silt was cleaned out. Repeated this process 6 times until no more silt was evident in the drained fuel. Tim at Carburettor Service Co and Wade both reported silt in the carb and pump respectively. Time even offered me a bag of the fine silt he'd collected from the bottom of the float bowl, which I declined. Tim had also run and adjusted the carb on his test motor and reported it all A OK. But, getting back to the fuel tank. I'd mentioned previously my inability to remove it because of the filler neck proving to be too difficult to manoeuver(maneuver) the tank by myself to overcome that obstacle. So Packard sacrilege was performed by hacksawing through the filler neck. After that the tank literally dropped out. Also the reason for the 58mm hose and heavy duty clamps. I'd measured the filler neck at 2&1/4" = 57mm and the counter guy at Pirtek recommended wire reinforced hose because it was fuel resistant, and the heavy duty clamps because of the wire reinforcement which ordinary hose clamps probably wouldn't pull up tight enough to seal. Also blew through the fuel line from the pump end, manually mind you, I don't have a compressor. Collected the fuel blown through which was also infused with silt that would do the River Nile proud. Topped up the line with fresh fuel a number of times until the result was clean fuel coming through. Because of the silt problem decided another inline fuel filter was in order. Again Packard sacrilege, with about a 1" piece of hard fuel line cut from just before where it meets with the short flexible line to the fuel pump. Two pieces of soft line, 4 clamps and a throw away filter about 4" in length now occupy the space. Also pushes the flexible line to the pump into a curve but without any kinks in it. 12 litres(about 3 US gallons) of fresh fuel in the tank, carb on, linkage reconnected, choke tube attached but not the vacuum line(it's a ba$tard to hook up). Besides the carb is coming off again....more of that later. Some starting fluid down the carb throat, which the motor catches on and runs briefly. Tried to blow through some fuel from the tank, with these old lungs apparently not being up to it, as it wasn't successful! And because of my lung power failure, started thinking there was a blockage somewhere in the system. Although I had the tank out I hadn't check whether the pickup tube was clear, so again dropped the tank and removed the sending/pickup unit which OF COURSE proved to be clear! ![]() But, I wanted to know the Coupe would run. So hooked up a 5 litre oil container with about 3 litres of fuel in it directly to the fuel pump. Mounted the container on top of the frame next to the radiator collar with a clamped plastic hose to the fuel pump inlet. And it ran! Took the opportunity to drive the coupe out onto the street, turned it around and then drive it back in and parked in the carport in front of the garage. It had spent almost 4 weeks in the driveway hiding under a car cover during that time. What to do? Without an air compressor, thought about hiring one but then decided to call a mobile mechanic. Where I am, in a rural area, these guys have everything on the back of their Utes almost, but not quite, including a kitchen sink. Ray, the mobile mechanic, arrived at the appointed time, blew through the fuel line with 100psi from both ends and pronounced it clear. He also advised I should have primed the fuel line before trying to start the Coupe and, seeing I was paying for his time, proceeded to do that. This was done with the aid of a 12V electric pump mounted on a board and powered via looooong jumper cables from the Utes battery. Line primed, Ray collected his gear, used his hand cleaner and promptly rinsed his hands from a water supply on board his Ute, told you he almost had a kitchen sink! That left me to reinstall the unnecessarily redropped fuel tank and reconnect all the fuel line fittings. And it worked! No leaks, runs nicely but still without the vacuum advance. Reason being is that there's a blown manifold gasket which needs to be replaced. So the carb and manifolds are coming off in the near future to remedy that problem. And, speaking of problems, in putting the fuel tank back in discovered the rear exhaust pipe hanger bracket is broken. That too will be addressed! Sorry there's not that many photos. After working(and I use that term lightly) with Wade, now find a greater degree of difficulty in taking photos while the work is in process.
Posted on: 2017/1/24 1:01
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Mal
/o[]o\ ==== ![]() Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia "Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche. 1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD 1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD 1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD 1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD What's this? ![]() Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry! Here's how! Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com |
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Re: Wade's Workshop
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Saturday 28th January, 2017
Stage one of replacement of the intake/exhaust manifold gaskets is complete. Wasn't meant to be a two stage process but, instead of doing the entire job today, circumstance have conspired against me. Jacked the front of the Coupe up again and placed jackstands under each front frame rail. Then disconnected carb and carb linkages. Removed right front wheel/tire combo for access. The front inner fender panel on that side had been removed in the fuel system repair and wasn't yet back on so access to the manifold nuts was good......I thought. Disconnected the engine pipe bracket from the bellhousing and undid the engine pipe to exhaust manifold clamp. The gasket there was falling apart, so that was one leak. Certainly access to the nuts holding the front of the manifold was good but had to remove the rear part of the front inner fender panel to access the rear manifold nuts. And in undoing the brass manifold nuts found just about all of them required almost no force to loosen. I know that brass nuts are OK for these Packards but I think mine are past their use by date so I'm going to go for steel nuts when the manifold goes back on. Hardest part was lifting out the intake/exhaust manifold assembly. Leaning over a wide mudguard(fender) then reaching down to try and lift out the manifold proved very difficult. Resorted to tying a length of rope around the manifold assembly as an aid, still difficult but got there in the end. Have cleaned up both the manifold and the block surfaces now need to put it all back together again. Stage two will take place once I have the steel nuts in hand. Back in 2015 when I previously replaced the gaskets received this advice, but not until after I'd installed the new gaskets: Quote: Peter Packard wrote:Mal, You are a very naughty rabbit!.. You should place the RTV compound on the inside only of the manifold gasket..if at all. The Outside of the manifold gasket is graphite coated to allow the exhaust manifold to SLIDE ACROSS the gasket as it heats up. If you LOCK the gasket surface the exhaust manifold will tear the gasket apart as previously experienced. This is also true for persons unfortunate enough to have been conned into surfacing the manifold faces on a milling machine..leaving circular grooves which grip the manifold gasket and destroy it. You have bolted it up now so let's see how it goes. I speak from experience with my 38 Richards Six. .Best Regards PT That gasket replacement lasted about 6,000 miles, but started exhibiting leakage symptoms after about half that mileage, and still not badly blown when replaced. But, this time round, will try without the RTV on either side of the gaskets. Don't know if I like to be thought of as "a very naughty rabbit!" 🐰 And from Peters post, I have a question - How do you tell which side of the gasket is graphite coated? Thought it might be as simple as running a finger over each side and observing which side leaves a "dirty" mark, but the finger wipe test appears to leave similar "dirty" marks from both sides.
Posted on: 2017/1/28 0:57
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Mal
/o[]o\ ==== ![]() Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia "Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche. 1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD 1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD 1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD 1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD What's this? ![]() Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry! Here's how! Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com |
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Re: Wade's Workshop
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Home away from home
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Mal, brass nuts are the way to go for fastening the manifolds to the engine. Why not get a new set of brass nuts instead of going with the incorrect steel ones?
By the way, your Packard really got a dose of bad fuel. That was most unfortunate. You are lucky, in that you can fix your own car. I wonder how many other vehicles were affected? The newer fuel injected engines must cost thousands to repair. Always appreciate your postings from Oz. (o[]o)
Posted on: 2017/1/28 12:27
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Re: Wade's Workshop
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I'm with JW on keeping them brass or maybe go to bronze nuts. There is enough problems with steel nuts rusting to a stud as it is without asking for more. One thing I have wondered about is why there isn't the use of a lockwasher on those manifold nuts. I can't see why adding one would hurt but am sure others will have a reason why Packard didn't do it..
Posted on: 2017/1/28 13:40
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Howard
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Re: Wade's Workshop
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Home away from home
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I would consider replacing the studs (with stainless ) in the block as they may be rusted even worn from repeated use also new brass nuts. If you replace studs use longer ones and add extra nut as a lock and extra area of contact on stud.I know no more strength after one and half times diameter is rule thumb
Posted on: 2017/1/28 14:54
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