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Hey guys, quick question. My dad just acquired a 1938 Super 8 Touring Sedan (I'll be adding it to the owner registry soon) that has been very well kept. It hadn't been driven in several years due to the previous owner's health issues, and after his maiden drive with the car he noticed there was a coolant leak. By leaving the engine running he was able to trace it back to the water pump. He thinks it's the seal or gasket on the pump. I don't have much more info than that because this car is on the other side of the country, so I'm going by what he sees.

Neither of us are well-versed in older cars. Are there replacement gaskets/seals available for the water pump? Do we need to have the water pump rebuilt or replaced? He'll be taking it to a guy who does some work on classics in a couple of weeks and would like to have the parts on hand for the repair.

Car info:
Body # 412133 (from firewall)...not sure if this is correct.
Engine # A502416

Thanks
Kevin Packard

It's a pretty simple and basic water pump and it's internals are illustrated in the 1937-38 Shop Manual which is probably available on this site. There are two places for leakage. First, there is a large copper "O" ring gasket that goes between the pump body and the engine block; it is designed that way as the pump body is rotated as an eccentric to adjust the fan belts. Possibly the five bolts holding the pump top the block via the copper O ring are loose, just tighten. Or if broken, it is available as a new part from any of the major Packard vendors and is I believe the same part# all the way back to the early 30s. The second and more likely source of the leak is the shaft packing. It's simple graphite cord or graphite split ring packing and is adjusted with the gland nut. If there is enough packing left, just tighten the gland nut a bit but remember it should be allowed to make the occasional drip - that's what lubricates the shaft. If you need new packing, new split rings are available but honestly it's just a lot easier to go to the plumbing supply store and buy some small diameter graphited cord packing, clean out the cavity and repack it. One spool of packing cord will last several lifetimes. The replacement of the packing is most easily done with the pump removed which is a good time to check the condition of the ball bearings and if they need replacement they are common bearings available at any bearing store, or at extra cost from any of the major Packard vendors. They were originally open bearings and lubricated via the oiler and a felt oil packing, and with seals. But most times folks just opt for sealed bearings so they can neglect the oiler.


I guess, being a 1938 you can't determine the vehicle number as the decal has deteriorated?

Owen, thank you for the information. I'll pass this along and see what my dad is able to come up with. It seems like it would be the shaft packing from what he described, so perhaps a simple turn of the nut is all that is needed. Would it perhaps seal itself with use, as the packing rehydrates?

You are correct about the vehicle number, the decal is long gone. I'll have him recheck the firewall number.

-Kevin

I rather doubt that the leak, if at the shaft packing, will "seal itself". The packing nut is a normal hex-head but access with a regular wrench is difficult if not impossible; there was a special which you can still buy (Byron York has them), or you cold get a stock "Martin pump wrench" in the correct size from MSC, perhaps McMaster. I'll post if I already have a picture.

I'm rethinking my comment that the two ball bearings were open bearings with seals, but you'll find out. If you buy the original split-ring packing you should be able to do it with the pump on the car, but removing the pump is so simple I wouldn't bother - but your choice. I'll enclose a scan of the 37 Super 8 pump, 38 is the same except it has larger bearings and a lightly different body, shaft and impellor.

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Hi Dave,

Would that wrench work for the pump on my '31.

Thanks for posting info for us.

Quote:G'day Kevin,
Congratulations to your Dad on acquiring the '38 Super 8 and for thinking of adding it to the Packard Owner's Registry, looking forward to seeing it there.

Tom, there are several different size gland nuts on Packard water pumps and I believe Byron has made them all. Also generic pump wrenches come in a range of sizes, measure your packing nut across flats and compare to what's in MSC's catalog. Remember, Byron's are made to Packard engineering drawing specs, the generic pump wrenches may not be exactly the same but both are made to 30 deg. offset and both are extra thin. I've used both the Packard repro and generic pump wrenches and find they both do the job.

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If the pump shaft is pitted you will discover that by the fact that no matter how many times you snug the packing nut up it just doesn't help.

Dave,

Thanks for the info I will look into MSC's and Byron's
wrenches.

Have a great Packin Day

Guys, this is very helpful information! Thanks for taking the time to help us out. My dad says that the water pump isn't leaking as bad anymore but he found another leak at the radiator. He thinks it's coming from the upper reservoir. Here's a pic showing it....half the radiator is wet, and coolant is visible on the upper left corner. Replacement? Repair? What are our options?


Here is a picture of the water pump (I believe....haven't seen it in person).



On a side note, is it possible to tell whether this is a 1603 or 1605? Being a 1938, the builders sticker is long gone. Here's the car:


Thanks,
Kevin