Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

The Oldsmobile "Rocket" V-8 of 1949-on was the second of General Motors' new, "Modern" high compression V-8 engines, where the bore was larger than the stroke, a first in the (mass produced) auto industry. The honors for the first goes to the Cadillac 331 cu. in. V-8. The Oldsmobile is more celebrated because of the lower price of the host car and the racing records racked up by the Rocket powered Olds cars.

Every modern V-8 is a varation on the Cadillac V-8.

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Yes, Dr. Charles Kettering's 1949 design outline; oversquare bore/stroke, shaft rockers, wedge combustion chambers, siamesed center exhaust ports, separate intake manifold/valley cover and water manifold/water pump, five main bearings, long connecting rods, near-horizontal intake flange, long exhaust ports, was followed by Cadillac, Oldsmobile, Studebaker and Packard, but not by all of the first-generation 1949-55 V8s. From 1951-58, Chrysler did not choose the wedge combustion chamber or the siamesed exhaust ports; a hemi chamber, opposed valves, dual rocker shafts, alternating intake and exhaust ports were much more efficient and thus had a performance edge for the next ten years.

No, By 1955 the second generation of GM engines changed dramatically, choosing ball/stud rocker arms, using the intake manifold as the valley cover and the water manifold as the water pump housing, much shorter exhaust ports, shorter connecting rods, thus made for a very different engine internally and externally.

Maybe, but the current generation of OHC V8s and the GM pushrod V8s only retain the oversquare influence and five main bearings. Nothing else remains from Kettering's 1949 design.

thnx, jack vines

Thanks for the mention of the 331 Caddy from 1949. It is one of my favorite trivia questions: Who built the original "small-block" GM V8? The Chevy "mouse" motor owed a lot to that design, and it was a technical marvel. One of the biggest differences that allowed the short-deck design was the nicely carved piston skirts that gave clearance for the crankshaft counterweights. A piston did not have to look like a coffee-can to work! Who'd a thunk?

At least that's one of the primary innovations of the 331 as I understand it.

I really, really hate to say this, but the '49 Caddy has some striking similarities to the same vintage Bentley. I can no longer locate the old Cars & Parts that did the comparison, or even who supposedly copied who. The article included diagrams, measurements, the works! It also included the info on how the notched piston contributed to the overall compactness of the 331.

Thanks for the picture of the Corvette straight six.

Remember what Chevy called it?

348s and 409s!! Fond memories from George Ray's outlaw dragstrip at Paragould, Arkansas in the early 1960s. We used several 348s and 409s in several cars. Power was there when set up right but one had to be a bit careful with them. Wrapping one up without a load on it (missed shift, etc) generally resulted in interior components catastrophically rearranging themselves or, in one rather spectacular case, entirely departing the vehicle.

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Loyd,

Very descriptive! I can just picture it!

Having nothing to do with Packards, but since the Oldsmobile Rocket V-8 came up I thought I would mention a rumor I heard many years ago. After Olds came out with the Futuramic Olds 98 in 1948, they were faced witrh a real problem. The 98 straight eight was the original "gutless wonder". I owned a 1948 Olds 98 convertible and it wouldn't pull the hat off your head. The rumor is that GM management asked Olds if their V8 was ready for production. Olds said it was not. The board then ordered Buick to turn their V8 over to Olds, since the Buick straight eight was much stronger and could keep going a little longer. Anyone else hear this rumor?

No, I've not heard that before but acknowledge that I generally don't follow GM cars very exhaustively. But knowing the amount of clout and independence that Buick had within the GM castle, I can guess what their answer would have been, "No, No, and in case you didn't hear me, NO again".

Quote: Without certification from a reliable source, I'd consider it an elderly urban legend. Think about GM history. Olds tried a lot of ideas first in that era. Oldsmobile got the HydraMatic first, got the hardtop body style first. Conversely, Buick was the doctor's car, the stodgy middle class big car for those who didn't want to be seen in a Cadillac for fear of being thought too ostentatious.

thnx, jack vines

I thot Olds had the V8 at least 3 years before Buick.

First Olds V8 about 1950 or 51. First Buick V8 in 54 or 55 ????? No?

Interesting thread.

Thanks Jack for all the detail.

There are several design flaws with the Packard V-8 which probably made it a "dead player" in the above cited study, despite being big and cheap.

Putting aside weight and strength issues for drag and NASCAR engines (not really a problem on the street), IMO, the intake and exhaust port placement, i.e., valve-order-in-head is the biggest drawback to performance. This has been discussed elsewhere, but at least Pontiac (among those GM experts cited above), had a way to "solve" the siamesed center exhaust port problem. See Pontiac's 1968-70 Ram Air IV, 1971-72 455HO and 1973-74 455SD "round port" (exhaust) heads. No such modification could have been applied to the original Packard design. Packard V-8 heads would have required a complete redesign, ala the Pontiac Ram Air V (303, 366 and 400).

Also interesting is John Delorean's migration from Packard to Pontiac, although apparently there was no real transfer of engine tech, the two engine designs being developed more or less in parallel.

Craig