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I have a 359 cuin packard engine from my salvage Packard Limo automatic. Was curious if it worth the effort to SWAP my 356 engine from my 1940 Formal, manual trans to a rebuilt 359? Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

As far as power I don't think you will see all that much difference at the wheels but could be wrong. With the limited availability of one year only parts specific to the 359 could that be an issue down the road? Also, if you are planning on keeping the automatic I would wonder if there is enough space for it.

In case you have not already checked it out there was an article published in 1953 on replacing the 356 engine in Clipper based cars with the senior 327 engine. I expect the steps and parts needed would be the same as the 359 would require but not sure how much might be different in a conventional body car with the different frame. The article might give you some ideas of all the different parts and conversion work that could be needed. There were also a couple of later supplements to the first article.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/SC/SC-VOL27NO7.pdf

G'day Meteor56Man,
to PackardInfo.

I invite you to include both your '54 Limo and '40 Formal Sedan in the Packard Vehicle Registry.

Does the manual trans have an overdrive? If so, I would keep it (the trans at least). If the 359 is Gear-Start, the reliability of that transmission I don't know about, better ask Ross. If the 359 is regular Ultramatic, that is only a single-speed automatic (in normally recommended don't shift it yourself from low to high) with torque-converter lockup, and you may find the acceleration underwhelming, even with the greater power of the 359 (212 Hp, mostly because of increased compression and the 4-barrel carb) versus the 356 (160). Also may want to think about gearing if you switch transmissions. Both engines have hydraulic valve lifters.

Hi, I'm new to all this forum stuff, used to Facebook Groups mostly.

Anyway, I just did some automotive reclamation and ended up with both a 1948 356 with the Overdrive manual trans, and a 359 that used to have an automatic. It's all getting stuffed into my 1940 120, but would like to put the 359 in it. Any progress on swapping the trans over? Anything I should expect in doing doing so myself?

If I understand correctly and you are planning to use the 48 trans off a 356 with a 359 you will run into some issues.

The trans used with a 356 has a larger diameter input shaft, OD is different and combo was used only with that engine. To work with a 359 will require a different clutch and maybe pressure plate as well as some additional changes in the overall clutch assy from parts normally used with the 359. The larger input shaft also needs a larger pilot bearing that may not fit in the later flywheels used on the 359 crank. If you do overcome those issues and are lucky the 48 trans/OD is the R11 but if not and the 48 trans/OD is the R9 the electrical components are specific to that unit, available in 6v only, and harder to find which translates into more complex and expensive.

In case you have an R9 it would be better to find a 48-54 R11 trans/OD that was used with the smaller 288/327 block engines. As long as you get the bellhousing and clutch stuff it should bolt right up to the 359 although the transmission mounts to the cross member may need work along with changing the mounts on the engine from the side to the front to fit in a 40. If you haven't already seen it, here is a service article mentioning some of the changes needed to mount a later engine in the prewar frames.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/SC/SC-VOL27NO7.pdf

Electrical on the R11 is simple, solenoid repros are made and available in both 6v and 12v. If you want it could be controlled manually via a toggle switch but if you want factory operation, except for the lockout switch which might be able to be worked around almost everything else is able to use off the shelf universal switches and relays. The only factory electrical item absolutely necessary would be the governor.

How do I tell the R9 from the R11?
Will the fact the 359 was set up for an automatic make much of a difference? It seems to have a full flywheel, albeit without a surface for the friction plate to ride on. Would that swap with the 282 flywheel, or did that change when they went to 288/327 etc.?
What about bellhousing pattern? The 359 has like an aluminum thing around the flywheel, 356 seems to have the bellhousing straight to the block.

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The aluminum thing is probably cast iron and is the adapter for the Ultramatic but with it removed, the back of the engine should have the same bolt pattern as the others. The flywheel is likely the flex plate for the Ultramatic torque converted rather than a flywheel.

The 1950 and earlier had a single mount at the front of the engine with two on the transmission (one on each side) while the 1951-1954 had one on the transmission and two on the engine (again, one on each side). To put the 359 into a pre-1951 car, you’ll need to replace the front plate of the engine with an earlier one and get the front mount A-frame with new mounting rubber to use with it. I may have the plate and A-frame but I am not sure if they will work for you in this case or not since I am not sure what they are from.

As for telling R9 and R11 apart, they are quite different but another very recent thread from the last week describes them and is illustrated with photos of each. This site’s search engine will probably help answer that.

As far as the adapter, it looked like cast aluminum to me, but could very well just be the crap stuck on it is lighter. As far as the unidentified disk - if it is indeed a flex plate, it is the most substantial one I've ever seen. I've never felt with an automatic from that Era before, thought it might be a flywheel with the bolt pattern for the torque converter. Honestly looked like a tractor flywheel almond, with the rim around the outside.

As far as overdrive goes, I couldn't find an illustrated thread, but I finally did find one that said the lever would be on the driver's side for r11, which mine has.

Good to here I don't need to mess around with adapter plates or anything, just get the flywheel and clutch situation figured out (pilot bush/bearing, and possibly clutch cover - I've heard the throw out mechanism is different?).

Yeah I've seen the differences in mounts, that's not the part I'm concerned about.

Whether R9 or R11, you wouldn’t need an adapter plate as the transmission mount flange and the bell housing to engine pattern remained unchanged for years. Unless the flywheel is very thick (maybe 3/4” or even thicker), then it’s the flex plate and yes, they were substantial.

One thing to consider that Howard (HH56) already mentioned is the pilot bearing. It goes into a bore at the back of the crankshaft so you would need to get one that not only fits the bore but also fits the pilot on the transmission.

When the stock of replacement 356 engines was exhausted Packard actually offered the 359 as a field replacement for it and supplied it as a kit for the purpose.

The 359 in your photo has had its original aluminum head replaced with a different cast iron one. Since the 359 always had the aluminum head until it got replaced later in life, likely the compression radio is a little different than it was originally depending on which head was used.