Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Hello all,

In my search for a '40's Packard convertible, I found a 1940 Packard 120 convertible sedan. It does not appear to me to be anything other than a production convertible sedan, yet it has a body plate stating "The Derham Co. Phila., Vehicle Number...." This tag is mounted just under the Packard body plate on the left firewall. The "vehicle number" is the same as the Packard body number.

I have contacted several Packard enthusiasts, but none has ever heard of a 1940 Derham 120 convertible sedan. Several have suggested that it might be a tag someone just slapped on the car to make it more interesting or valuable, and that is certainly possible. Does anyone have a Derham bodied car of any year/model with a tag on the car, and if so, can you describe the tag and where it is located, or send a photo? Or has anyone ever heard of a '40 120 convertible sedan being built by Derham? At first I thought maybe all the convertible sedans were sent out to be built by a outside source, but does not seem to be the case. I have also written to the CCCA Library at Hickory Corners to see if the Derham archives have anything.

If anyone can shed some light on this, I would sure appreciate any information you have to offer.

Thank you, Jim

Sounds interesting, it will be interesting to hear what responses you get from CCCA. I forget, are the Derham archives at the CCCA museum? If it's a true Derham, that late in the game it probably uses mostly all factory body panels but has a more elegant interior, though anything is possible at this point - got any pictures? The Derham archives should tell it all. It certainly was not a factory "offering". A chance it might have been factory sponsored as a display car for one of the national auto shows like NYC or Detroit.

First thing I'd ask is, if you know, what features of the car that differ from the standard 1940 120 convertible sedan #1397? There are at least 7 1940 120 convertible sedans listed in the PAC National Directory so it would be very interesting for you to communicate with those owners to see what differences, if any, there are.

I'm familiar with one 1940 Derham car, but it's a Senior Super 8 and a true one-off. It does not have a Packard Patent Plate but rather Derham subsituted their own plate, very plain, with just their name and a "vehicle number" in their own format with no semblance to the Packard numbering system. The number, all digits, is in the format XXX-XXX-XX.

Dick Kughn has (had???) a green 1940 Packard 1808 Derham convertible sedan.

Quote:G'day Jim,
to PackardInfo.

I see on the AACA Packard Forum you're also looking at another Packard. So prompts my request if you could please include any Packards you own, or will own, in the Packard Owner's Registry here, together with pic/s, any known history and how you acquired it/them?

Hello eaglerock.
As the owner of the 1940 Derham bodied "one-off" that O_D mentioned, I am always interested in Derham built cars.
Over the years, I have seen several Derham bodied cars,all with the Derham shield on both sides of the car, just below and slightly posterior to the hood. In my case they are adjacent to and somewhat behind the sidemounts. I have never seen a single shield mounted on the firewall.
Derham was known to remove the Packard plate from the firewall and replace it with a simple metal plate having a set of numbers that were not Packard's, but probably meant something in Derham's production scheme. Packard would ship the chassis, engine and running gear to the coachmaker, The rest of the car would be built by the coachmaker to the buyers specifications. In the 50s, Derham did conversions of factory cars for Packard and others, but these were essentally modified production cars.
The suggestion that you contact others with similar cars and compare them is an excellent idea.
IMHO, I believe a prior owner attached the shield to the firewall hopeing in would enhance the value of the car.
Regardless, it is a fine car and I hope you have tons of pleasure with it.

These attachments may be of interest to readers. They show dimensions of body and chassis for coachbuilders. They were on a display board at the 2009 Salado Packard Meet. I took the photos.

(o{I}o)

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West, Dick still has his 1940 Duuuu--rrrr-uuuum (sic) convertible sedan. I drove that car a lot while in his employ, and it is one of the best driving pre war cars I have ever had the pleasure to drive. His shop, Classic Auto Restorations did the car, they finished it in about 1984. One rear door was 1/2 wider than the other before they began the restoration, they found it easier to make everything even when they re-did the body. The car did not have any additional plate under the hood, just the Packard plate and the Derham tags on the cowl. As the car had been ground-up restored, those could have been left off, or had already been removed from the car before Dick got it--Buck Varnon would perhaps remember this. Aside from the non-period metal flake paint (large metal flake, like a street rod would have) it is one of the best restorations I have seen anywhere, and unlike some beautifully (cosmetically)restored cars it is a fully functional automobile capable of driving anywhere under any condition with complete reliability and smoothness, as a Packard should be. We had it in the grueling parade in Warren Ohio for the centennial celebration and it, like all four other cars we brought came through that boil-over test with flying colors.
It appeared to have been a stock convertible sedan that Derham merely lengthened.