Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Reference: Coupe Convertible 110 1941
As I've already said in a previous post the body plate is missing. After spending some time searching in old documents of my car I could finaly obtain the body # DE 1489-3224. The engine # D 34974 it's clearly stamped in the block and matches the documents.
With these data I've estimated the production figure for this type of body as 1900 units.
Following I want to explain how do I obtain that figure so you can give your opinions and see if it matches other estimations.
The engine # for that year started with D 1551 and ended in D 36327 and the body # started with 2001 (from Packard Info).
So when my engine was built there where still 1353 (36327 -34974) engines to come and though 1353 110 cars of all bodies types to be assembled.
My car was the 1224 (3224-2001) of this specific body type to be assembled.
It's simple to determine that the minimum production was 1224 (if my car was the last one to be manufactured) and the maximum 2577 (1224 + 1353) if all the remaining cars after mine where of that specific body. Accepting as reasonable someplace in the middle we can end up in 1900.
I know now that Packard was not that sistemic and though this could be only a mathematic excersise, but anyway I hope it's something more to think of.

Thanks for sharing your methodology. Agrees pretty well with my earlier estimate of about 7.5% of the 110 cars being convertible coupes.

Have you considered how many of the body type 1489 cars might have been DE1489 cars? Based on survivors of other 1941 cars like the "160" convertible coupes, the DE version had a very much lower production. Just a pure guess, but I'd suspect not that many 110 1489s were the DE version as with that extra cost of the DE version considered, only another $160 would have bought a 120, but I'm just speculating.

The BDN (thief-proof number) can be useful for estimating where in the production run your particular body was assembled.

I am not familiar with the DE designation. Can you tell me what that represents ?

"DE" is the DeLuxe version. In the 160 convertibles which I'm more familiar with, the DE had real wooden upper door window sills among other little refinements. In the 110 series it was about $40 more than the standard 1489.

In the 110 series you could get a DE version in the club coupe, convertible coupe, 2-door touring sedan, 4-door touring sedan, and the station wagon. I don't believe there were any DE versions in the 120 series. In the 160 series you could get a DE version in the convertible coupe and the convertible sedan. There were no DE versions in the 180 series, understandably as they were already about as DeLuxe as you could get.

On DeLuxe cars, the "DE" was stamped on the patent plate immediately preceeding the vehicle number and without a space between it and the body type number.

Dave,

Were the DE versions of a model, like the 1489 here, separately numbered? Or were they interspersed amongst the 1489's and identified as DE's by the prefix on the body plate?

EG

DE 1489 - 2001, - 2002, - 2003, etc, etc.

OR

1489 - 2001, 1489 - 2002, DE 1489 - 2003, 1489 - 2004, DE 1489 - 2005.......

Additionally, per the Kimes book(loosely used term), total production for all 110 models is 34,700 - see pic. This suggests that not all engines went into vehicles on the production line possibly being kept as replacements or failing in assembly or testing? As if anyone needed another factor to consider in trying to extrapolate numbers.

The phrase "Lies, damn lies and statistics" also comes to mind.

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Good questions Mal, as always! Turnquist also cites 34,700 units, and I suspect their original data source was the same (Packard's own records).

No, I don't believe (but can't confirm by documentation) that the DE cars were separately numbered, I believe they were just interspersed with the non-DE production. I base this on the relatively small number of such cars that I've seen and could be incorrect.

PS - One observation I've not made but wish I had is to see if the DE cars also have a DE prefix on the Briggs number. I'll have a chance to check this at the PAC National in Gettysburg next month.

Ambianchi, does you car have the Briggs Manufacturing Co. tag on the engine side of the cowl? If so, does that number have a DE prefix, and does the # match your vehicle number? I'd love to have all that data, plus the thief-proof number.

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Dave
I've never heard of a 160, DE or otherwise, having real wooden window sills/frames. As far as I've ever known, that was strictly used on the 180. I think it is more likely that the DE models would have had woodgrain as opposed to single-color paint. Have I been in the dark for the last 50 years?

West, I'd never dare say you've been in the dark, but if you're going to Gettysburg, take a look at Jeff Guss' 1941 160 DE, and any others that might be there. I can assure you based on 3 or 4 160 DE's I've seen they have wooden window sills on the front doors.

The 160 DE got the upgrade, so the story goes, because there was no standard 180 convertible coupe, that spot being taken by the Darrin. Thus the rationale for the 160 DE which received some of what a 180 convertible coupe might have had. Sounds logical.

Maybe a good check of the 1941 model info will reveal something about it, I'll take a look as I'm sure you will also. You might also want to give a call to Tom Crook in Seattle as a number of these have passed thru his hands.

Thanks Dave. I'll have to pay a little more attention next time I see one. It wasn't really that long ago that I started to learn that there was a separate DE series, so I guess my brain just got another little wrinkle in it.

Unfortunately I'll not be making the trip to Gettysburg.

West, I'll call Mr. Guss and ask him to take a couple of snapshots for you. I'll just add them to this post when I get them.

Dave

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