Packard Forum Index » General

Quote:

Sure, Frank, here's a whole thread-- only 40,000 views so far on AACA:
http://forums.aaca.org/f134/packard-firsts-199486.html

Quote:

Oh ye of faint heart, Owen.

Quote:

Et tu, Brian?

I think the list that finally came out of that AACA thread is pretty decent, although no one seemed to want to take credit for their own contributions... or mistakes. But earlier someone suggested we should add "Curved Windshield." I think that might be a good one to hoist up the flagpole.

The list was compiled by experts like the Packard people who post on PackardInfo and the Packard forum on AACA. Not me. But I'll take full credit for stirring up the hornets nest, and liking it fine. It still has the highest "hit" count of any thread on the AACA Packard forum, so a lot of people are still reading the thread avidly, yet, as the above quotes attest, they're too timid to stick their necks out and post something, mostly because of the ravings of a few who thought they knew everything there was to know, or maybe thought I was talking out of turn... no matter how many times I reassured them that I was acting ONLY as ongoing editor/commentator, and had NOTHING to do with creating any of the original lists of Packard "Firsts" that were gleaned from not only the PAC website (by permission) but also from Packards International (by permission) and "presented for your approval" (or disapproval).

I don't know, maybe it was the ungentlemanly aspects of some of the AACA posters, or something in the topic that naturally rankled. But I did not, and do not, appreciate being (namelessly) chastised for the labor I did on what, I believe, is an effort to keep the Packard marque represented in "living history."

All contributions to the thread had to be defended and discussed--including the items on the original lists as copied from other sources, and those found in various publications. Many sources were cited, and many of them conflicted and were discussed. The definition(s) of bona-fide automotive "firsts" was clearly open for discussion as well, and some contributions were qualified on the basis of how they fit these definitions.

The fact that every printed resource and self-styled automotive expert does not agree on every item contributed for discussion doesn't disprove those items, nor does the fact that items are deemed to be based on a "fully-supported and -footnoted list" mean they are proven unequivocally.

As some of the contributors to this forum know (including the two mentioned above), I started that thread. My name appears below to prevent any confusion on that issue. I'm guilty. Piss off.

Dave, thanks for sharing the Zeppelin pics. Did you know that Maybach already started at the end of the 1920s to experiment with streamlined bodies?




No surprise, the products of company Maybach have been at home in the air.




Quote:

Tim, the NHTSA database is accessible online. I found two dozen S-class videos but a test report for the Maybach seems not to be available.

At least some few pictures, taken in the Mercedes safety center. It would surprise me if a Mercedes couldn't comply with any safety standard - usualy Mercedes set them.






sources

pic #1: www.maybach.de
pic #2: www.causa-nostra.com
pic #3: www.starsite.dk
pic #4: Daimler Benz

Attach file:

---

  (47.63 KB)

Quote:




Guy, according to other sources "... The 1921 Rumpler, which has been on display at the Florida attraction since 1978, is being loaned to the Berlin museum for one year. Noted German airplane and car designer Edmund Rumpler built about 100 of the automobiles between 1921 and 1923. It was the first production car to feature a curved windshield ..."




100 Rumpler have been build and where mostly used as taxi in Berlin but then the motion picture studio Ufa bought them up as staffage for "Metropolis" - one of the first science fiction movies.

<iframe width="500" height="369" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IcReykfvqi4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Interesting to know that the majority of them have been deliberately wrecked to epitomize the coming Armageddon.





sources
quotation: www.articles.sun-sentinel.com
pic #1: www.bungartz.nl
pic #2: www.imcdb.org

Many historians and writers have attributed the first curved windshield on a production car to the 1934 Chrysler Imperial Airflow (CW series, I think). It was only used on that one model and you can debate, given how few were made, if it meets your definition of "production car".

PS - after seeing Gusha's pictures, I should add the Airflow windshield was laminated safety glass.

Here two other versions, both made 1921, the obove shown car survived.





[picture source: www.carstyling.ru]

Detroit Electrics also had curved glass.

Attach file:

---

  (28.70 KB)

Plate glass, though. Perhaps a better question would have been what was the first production car to use curved safety glass windshields.

Mal, after intensive web search I believe that your Detroit Electrics won't win the curved windshield cup but it is a photo finish.

Attach file:

---

  (40.53 KB)

Guscha,

Gotta love that WWII era German military technology. Interestingly not a diesel. I always thought the Panzers and Tigers were diesel power, but according to a YouTube respondent to this video, they were gasoline engines.

The only rudimentary topical connection to this thread for this post is that the engines were apparently built by Maybach, a "revived" brand mentioned here. I wonder if they'd revive this engine for NATO tanks. Are there NATO tanks?

http://youtu.be/1x8f0z-HfRI

As a non-expert, I don't know about Packard's early adoption of curved windshields, y'all can take that argument back here if you want:

http://forums.aaca.org/f134/packard-firsts-199486.html

(Shameless promotion of a shameful contribution to Packard history, mystique, lore, etc.)

May I suggest, however, that horrible as it is to invite contributors to the awful, benighted discussion on that thread, it stands yet as probably the most extensively "peer reviewed" document ever on a Packard topic.

Of course, I am ignorant of almost all things relating to Packard's introduction and application of innovations from its own engineers, but curved glass may fit the category of Packard "firsts" under the (again, shameful) qualifications that Packard could possibly have been the first to use curved safety glass and/or the first to use curved glass on a mass-produced automobile. BUT THIS IS NOT IN ANY WAY MY OPINION ON THE SUBJECT.

In answer to this thread's actual topic, the Packard "brand" has technically been successfully revived as there exists a running, apparently roadable automobile manufactured under the legal Packard brand, and said automobile and the brand are salable commodities owned by a legal entity. Whether it goes any further or not is in the automotive stars, but "Packard" currently does exist. I think that's quite an achievement in and of itself. Somebody walked the talk, and that is worthy of some modicum of respect.

Even in the mid 1930s the leading role of Otto engines has been undisputed. But by and by the results of contrasting juxtapositions of advantages and disadvantages of diesel engines resulted in zero sum games. Due to the circumstances of war the German national economy changed into a command economy and the decision was accordingly: all noteworthy German track vehicles have been equipped with Otto engines made by Maybach (140,000 pieces) whereas all mentionable trucks were propelled by diesel engines. Curiously enough, the same key question brought the Russians to a mirror-inverted result.

After the war my grandfathers company used a couple of patchwork trucks (picture attached) assembled with a mix of depot parts intended for prewar luxury cars (Maybach engines, Horch chassis) and a body made of plywood, chipboards and papier-m?ch? (chewed paper).

Quote:

The engine manufacturer Maybach (today MTU) is alive and builds the engines for the German combat tanks as ever.

Attach file:

---

  (13.51 KB)