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Series 23 Stalling
#1
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shore72
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I've researched my problem online in a variety of more general forums bought wanted to run it by the real experts! Stock 2362 with a 288, WGD carb. Like many of these it runs on the hot side if you can believe the gauge, though it doesn't show any other signs of overheating. It normally starts great; unless it has sat for a couple weeks it will fire up in a few seconds with warm starts besting many fuel injected cars, though when really warm it can take a little cranking (few extra seconds).

The first couple times I drove the car I had trouble with it stalling on low-speed turns (turning into a parking lot, or onto a city street) and then it would crank but not start. Wait maybe 5 minutes and it would fire up and be okay. I blamed this on vapor lock and installed an in-line electric pump as this worked well with an old Ford I have (except the Ford wouldn't do this at low speeds but on the highway). This seemed to improve things but I'm still having trouble. Recent examples: start the car, no problem, let it idle for a couple minutes. (If anything it seems to rich from a cold start.) I drove 1/2 mile down the road, make a low-speed right turn & it stalls. Takes a couple cranks but it restarts. I drive another mile to the hardware store, come out, starts right up. Get to the end of the street, another low speed right turn, stalls, cranks to beat the band but won't start. Let it coast back into a parking space, wait a few minutes and it fires up. Drives fine the rest of the day. Then, yesterday: starts up fine, drive it across town, right turn into the store parking lot is a-okay. Come out after a few minutes, starts right up. Drive back home & when I make the slow right turn onto my street it stalls, cranks, no start. Took the top off the breather, choke is about 1/8 closed. I don't see any signs of gas in the carb but I don't know that I should. After a couple minutes the choke is closed slightly more, maybe 1/3. I then get a slight stumble while cranking but not enough. Then I placed my hand over the opening, blocking all air, and it stumbled then fired right up, running fine. Maybe a red herring-maybe it was just time for it to be over it's typical 3-5 minute crankiness? Drove home & I couldn't make it act up.

Today I played with it in the driveway, let it idle a lot, ran it at a fast idle, watched the choke gradually open. Wouldn't act up. Kinda tired of having to troubleshoot it on the side of the road!

I have some ideas but would like to hear yours. Thanks!

Posted on: 2018/10/4 21:12
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Re: Series 23 Stalling
#2
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Fred Puhn
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My Series 23 Packard used to occasionally stall, sometimes while on the freeway. I found the heat shield over the fuel pump was missing and put one on the car. That helped cure the low speed stalling. The high speed stalling seems like vapor lock. I installed an electric fuel pump in parallel with the mechanical pump and a switch to turn it on from the seat. That cures the high speed stalling and also helps on cold starts.

Posted on: 2018/10/4 22:58
Fred Puhn
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Re: Series 23 Stalling
#3
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Ross
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If it stalls on turns the float level is either very high or very low.

I am learning that with ethanol I have better results by lowering the stock float level a bit. My 56 has just changed from ridiculously difficult hot starts to instantaneous hot starts by that simple expedient

Posted on: 2018/10/5 18:58
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Re: Series 23 Stalling
#4
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shore72
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Heat shield: I found it in the trunk with some other parts. I'd been planning on painting it and getting it bolted on. I'll make that a priority.

Float level: I wanted some confirmation from "Packard People" before attempting it, so that's good information. I'd seen it mentioned on other sites but with newer carbs. I'm always a little leery of opening up a carburetor as I've had some bad experiences in the past. Hopefully this will be so simple that even I can't screw it up

Posted on: 2018/10/5 21:00
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Re: Series 23 Stalling
#5
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DavidPackard
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Posted on: 2018/10/17 19:34
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Re: Series 23 Stalling
#6
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Leeedy
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Every time I see these kinds of postings for postwar Packards I always think the same thing. Sometimes I even post the biggest cure I ever knew from back in the 1970s. But no one has ever commented that it helped. Anyway, I'll do it again.

Check the flex coupling in the fuel line where it leads to or from the fuel pump. What do you check for? Fine hairline cracks. You often have to remove the flex coupling and look at it very up close in good light. If you bend it and hairline cracks show up ... THAT is the problem.

Used to see this all, all, all the time on postwar Packards-especially V-8s. It is not a visually obvious problem unless you do very close inspection. And it often does not make itself known with a leak. But it is the cause of many problems like this.

The mechanic at Frost & French Packard dealership in Los Angeles decades ago told me people would bring cars in after buying a new fuel pump and would swear they sold them a bad pump... but the real problem the whole time was never the pump or the carb. It was the flex coupling in the fuel line.

These couplings often look perfectly fine, but under pressure all kinds of things happen: they leak, they suck air, deform, etc. etc. It's a cheap fix, but almost no one ever tries it until they've already spent a pantload of money and wasted a lot of time.

Anyway... for what it's worth...

Posted on: 2018/10/17 20:28
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Re: Series 23 Stalling
#7
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DavidPackard
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Good input!
I believe I changed the hose when I changed the pump, but I can't find an entry in the book I keep reminding me on what I've worked on, or changed. So since I can't tell I'll install a new line and report back. Due to other commitments it may take me the better part of a month to update the topic thread.

Considering I had the same loss of fuel pressure symptom at the same street intersection on two different days with a 40 F difference in outside air temperature, and a 30 F difference in coolant temperature that does suggest that I'm not dealing with a phase change problem.

The E-pump was installed with a few neoprene lines, so I'll change out those also . . . . They might be quite old (I did not get the maintenance records when I bought the car). To turn this into a proper science experiment I'll change one line at a time.

To counter the Frost & French experience I do pressurize the hose to 3+ psi every time I prime the carburetor with the E-pump. There has never been the slightest hint of an overboard fuel leak. I guess the hose could be collapsing to an area that is quite restrictive and the E-pump pushes it back to an acceptable area. Why the damn thing only misbehaves early in a drive and more times than not on a turn may have to remain a mystery.

Thanks again for the input. The hose is at the top of the list of things to do.
dp

Posted on: 2018/10/17 22:57
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Re: Series 23 Stalling
#8
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PackardDon
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Leeedy's suggestion is an excellent one as the stock pump sucks (literally) and could close down the inside of a bad hose while the electric pump pushes so could open it enough to get pressure.

As for running bad fuel, I totally seized the engine of my 1952 Henney-Packard by running old fuel. By the following Saturday it would not crank which turned out to be major build-up on the valves that were so stuck that one even bent when trying to remove it.

Posted on: 2018/10/28 15:19
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Re: Series 23 Stalling
#9
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Owen_Dyneto
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Wow, just how old was that fuel? And what type of fuel?

Posted on: 2018/10/28 15:39
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Re: Series 23 Stalling
#10
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PackardDon
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I have no idea but the car was supposedly in the body shop owned by a Packard Club member and he seemed in no rush for me to pick it up but, when I finally called, he said he had thought I had picked it up years ago! Apparently it had been stolen but I finally located it and brought it back home but by then it had deteriorated after years of sitting out in a field so the petrol was by then many years old. This incident mentioned above was several years after it was recovered so it was very old indeed. Good enough for it to run but it had no power to move the 6,200lb coach.

Posted on: 2018/10/28 16:20
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