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(1) 2 »

Coolant leaking into oil, water pump issue or worse?
#1
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gene
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Hi everyone,
I would like some information regarding a leak of coolant into my engine. I had my engine re-bored/built only in 2016 at huge expense and I'm really hoping this is not an issue with the block.
I've had an occasional squeaking sound coming from my water pump and have thought this may need rebuilding. I've finally received the rebuild kit from Max Merrit Auto and removed it today for rebuild, however after removing it I found a bent internal brass sleeve. Is this the real culprit allowing coolant into the block?
Could people comment on water pumps being the issue of leaks?
Is there any easy way to determine any other way this could be occurring other that taking the head off the block?
Thoughts everyone?
Kind Regards, Gene.

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Posted on: 2020/12/9 0:07
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Re: Coolant leaking into oil, water pump issue or worse?
#2
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kevinpackard
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That brass tube is the water distribution tube and is supposed to be there. It directs water/coolant around the cylinders. You can pull it out to get a better look at it and to be sure the passages are all clean, but I'd assume they are if you had the engine rebuilt. Bottom line is that there should be water and coolant in that passage...that's a good thing.

How do you know that coolant is getting into the oil? Have you seen any evidence of that actually happening? If coolant is indeed getting into the oil you'll be able to tell by looking at the dipstick. The oil won't look much like oil anymore.

If coolant is getting into the oil, then you can run a few tests first to see if it can be pinpointed. Do a compression check on all the cylinders to see if any are low. If two are low next to each other then there is a possible head gasket failure between the two. You can also do a leak-down test to see where air is going in suspicious cylinders. It will show if air is being lost to the oil (bad rings), adjacent cylinders (bad head gasket), exhaust (sticking exhaust valve), or intake (sticking intake valve).

Someone can correct me on the above. This is my understanding, but I'm about as big a novice as there is.

-Kevin

Posted on: 2020/12/9 1:08
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Re: Coolant leaking into oil, water pump issue or worse?
#3
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gene
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Hi there Kevin, thanks for responding.
Yes I noticed my oil had changed to a milky colour. The head gasket is newish, I just assumed it wouldn't be this or the valves.
Now I'm thinking that I have not done more diagnosis before jumping the gun on my water pump being the problem.
I'm a novice too as I've only worked on my old air cooled V.W's.
I don't think it's possible to do any compression test after taking off the water pump?
I had noticed that when starting even warmed up that it sounded like it was not running on all 8 cylinders.
This might be a sticking intake/exhaust valve issue after all. I didn't think coolant could leak in here but your probably right. I'm guessing this means mechanical work and I just had the carby rebuilt too. This is looking more and more expensive.
Now I'm cursing and thinking should have waited to hear back from my mechanic.
I'm not sure whether I should save my wallet on the pump rebuild and save it for my expensive mechanic now.

Posted on: 2020/12/9 1:51
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Re: Coolant leaking into oil, water pump issue or worse?
#4
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Packard Don
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You do a compression test by cranking the engine over while having a compression gauge in place of a spark plug. While doing it, all spark plugs are removed and the coil is disconnected so you are not going to actually run the engine. Point is, it makes no difference if the water pump is installed or not.

Having said that, was the head re-torqued when the gasket was replaced? This must be done frequently and when warm until it stabilizes and remains at the proper torque setting.

Posted on: 2020/12/9 2:35
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Re: Coolant leaking into oil, water pump issue or worse?
#5
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gene
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Well it was done by a renowned mechanic who's been working on old vehicles for ages. So I'm hoping he did that in 16 if this is the procedure. I have a torque wrench so maybe I should check them to see if they are the correct manual guide spec. They may have loosened up then to allow the flow, I wasn't aware this could happen.
Is there any way the water pump could be responsible at all then?
I will call him in the morning to double check your question.

Posted on: 2020/12/9 2:56
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Re: Coolant leaking into oil, water pump issue or worse?
#6
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Packard Don
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Re-torquing is something that must be done each time the car is run and driven and while warm, for the first year or so, or until the torque stabilizes. Doing it only once or twice at rebuild isn't enough so unless you took it back frequently to the mechanic or you torqued it yourself, it didn't get done.

Posted on: 2020/12/9 3:08
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Re: Coolant leaking into oil, water pump issue or worse?
#7
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Ross
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To your question, no, neither the water pump nor the water distribution tube will affect water getting into the oil. And more often than not the head gasket will not either though it won't hurt to check that it is torqued.

Would be interested to hear about the results of a compression test as you mention the engine is not smooth. There are perhaps 7 to 10 million descriptions of how to do that on the internet and you don't need to solve your water pump issue in order to perform that test.

Posted on: 2020/12/9 21:12
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Re: Coolant leaking into oil, water pump issue or worse?
#8
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kevinpackard
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To add to Ross's point, we ran into an issue when rebuilding my dad's '38 Super 8 that caused water/coolant to enter the oil. The block was a donor block and had corrosion. After being dipped and cleaned, the cylinders had to be bored to slightly larger. In the end #2 had a very thin spot that was impossible to see, and when the engine was first started up the water blew through the cylinder wall and into the oil. The engine ran but not smoothly, and #2 wasn't firing. Pulling the dipstick told the sad tale.

My understanding is that leaks like this can happen in the cylinder walls or sometimes the valve seats. I'd think a compression test will help potentially diagnose it.

-Kevin

Posted on: 2020/12/9 22:59
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Re: Coolant leaking into oil, water pump issue or worse?
#9
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Fish'n Jim
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If it's had water in the oil and run or sat for any length in that condition, you're in for a big repair, not just a water pump rebuild. Hopefully you drained out that wet oil already.

Didn't say what year/motor, but guessing, the straight flat heads are notorious for siamese cylinder design and large head gaskets that leak. Boring/decking can make it worse. Lots of posts on here.
We all expect a rebuild to be done and done properly, even by experts, but sometimes thing go unnoticed or undone. I recommend a test stand or dyno run before acceptance. It's cheap insurance another level of reducing error.
But just a guess since from way afar and defer to Ross.
Sorry for bad news. I think the compression test at this point is moot [One could also pressure test the coolant side.] - confirms the obvious and delaying the inevitable. It's leaking and won't know where til it's torn down and inspected.
Unless it's unintentional, someone put water in the wrong place. I had an aunt that put oil in the radiator overflow because she "knew" it took oil but didn't know where to put in since deceased uncle did those kind of things.

Posted on: 2020/12/10 10:15
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Re: Coolant leaking into oil, water pump issue or worse?
#10
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gene
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It's the original 288. I did a test on the coolant level when the engine was cold and after replacing the oil. I added 1 litre above the core and checked it the next day and it had dropped about 1 cm below the internal core structure.
This is why I THOUGHT it was pump related.
Could it be a crack in the internal piping?
Should I be buying a borescope to check before fitting my rebuilt water pump?

Posted on: 2020/12/11 0:29
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