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Fyreline -

It's not unusual for a thread to drift off-topic a bit, but I don't think we went too far, here.

After all, we were discussing how Exner's design for a Packard revival, as shown in Renwal model kit, might have been improved (front-end treatment), and we couldn't help but notice the influence of the design on the design of other cars.

Discussion then turned to exploration of how the Packard design might have been executed in the real world, using the Stutz Blackhawk as an example (Elvis owned two of those). Heck, Ex's (later) 66 Duesenberg design even made it as far as an actual running and drivable prototype (Elvis had an order in for two of those). BTW, after little more digging, I found out the 66 Duesenberg prototype was actually built on a stretched 66 Imperial chassis; though body was built by Ghia, some other pieces from the Imperial parts bins found their way into the car.

Perhaps we began to drift a bit too far off the original topic when discussion naturally turned to the possibility of any mainstream US automaker taking on a Packard revival, and for that I thank you for starting a new thread, Continuing the Packard. I'll be watching that one to see if there's anything more I can add.

Okay, here is one to ponder, but don't strain your brain too hard. This is really thinking out of the box.

S-P had and arrangement with M-B to market their cars here using S-P outlets. Suppose, just suppose, that M-B would have made a Packard, basically a M-B, but re-badged. This would be something like RR and Bentley. Re-badged M-Bs being sold as Packards here. Top quality, classic styling. It just might have worked.

Don't say I didn't warn you. It is now way past my bedtime and I must go. Goodnight.

(o[]o)

A creative idea for sure. Would have needed all new sheetmetal to really make the car stand out. Proportions would have been Junior rather than Senior.

Apparently S-P was kicking around a tie-up with Facel Vega to use their sedan. I'd read where its body structure wasn't very strong, doors popped open over bumps.

flickr.com/photos/autohistorian/4309652484/in/photostream/

I agree, it would have been junior in physical size as compared to the Cadillac and Lincoln behemoths of the time, but like the M-Bs, luxuriously appointed with good performance and road manners. There was a small U.S. market for the high-end English and European marques at the time. Maybe something like one of the Carl Evers concept drawings for a post-Clipper Packard? Granted the design is a bit dated, but still has class and attraction with its classical look.

(o[]o)

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That's certainly an interesting Mercedes-Benz/Packard rendering. Very stately, to be sure, but maybe just a bit anachronistic for the time it would have been introduced. Sure, it can be argued that it's no more old-fashioned looking than the contemporary Rolls-Royce or Bentley . . . or even that Mercedes-Benz itself stuck with the 300 "Adenauer" for a while longer.

But this was the mid-1950's, and a new Packard had to compete with Cadillac, Lincoln and Imperial . . . Any of which made a car such as the one pictured look hopelessly out of date. Which is too bad, it would have been a neat car, regardless. I like it.

Regarding the infamous Facel Vega - Packard collaboration, Jean Daninos (head of Facel) always denied it. He said he had no recollection of such an arrangement ever having been proposed (I have a letter from him saying so). However, enough "Packard People" have told the story over the years that there must have been at least something to it, even if it was only from Packard's end. There are a couple of different artist's renderings of the Facel Vega Excellence 4-door pillarless hardtop with suicide rear doors (a la 1957-58 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham) and it does have a certain Packard air about it. The story at the time was that the Studebaker-Packard alliance to market Mercedes-Benz automobiles in the USA was the supposed downfall of the Facel-Packard, as the German automaker had no interest in such a car being sold alongside their own 300 sedan in S-P/M-B showrooms, so they nixed the deal. Again, Jean Daninos, who was certainly in a position to know, says it never happened.

You be the judge.

A couple of pics.

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Just came across this late-60s Packard rendering.

flickr.com/photos/27096349@N07/4973259298

flickrhivemind.net/Tags/cars,renderings/Interesting

When I was in my early teens, I made up a few "Packards" using the AMT Lincoln kits. This looks very close to what I came up with - so naturally I like it. It's definitely a 60's to late 70's car.

The suggestion that a future Packard be built on an AMC body for me, is unworthy in many respects. AMC never had the resources or the good taste to fabricate quality interiors. Just look at the 57 Nash--still equipped with "tack on" armrests and a steering column that looked like a periscope on a submarine! And, in later years, AMC became the plastic king in terms of dashboards and other interior fittings.

Now, if by 1966 there was a desire and movement to bring Packard back, I can't think of any American car of that era that was a better candidate than the 1966 Imperial. Here was a quality luxury car in every respect. I own one, so I am biased; but one look at my original Crown interior will convince you of the quality. My headlner, real claro walnut inserts, abundant cast chrome fittings, and supple leather is most convincing--and certianly a match for Packard's quality through 1956. The exterior is of this same quaity with a die-cast grille that, if anything, exceeds what Packard was doing in its last Detroit year.

Here is a suggestion as to what the 1966 Packard Patrician and the Four-Hundred might look like. (Note that the rear of the Four-Hundred is rendered on the right using the existing 66 Imperial tail light housings--placed vertically.

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I've long been a fan of Elwood Engel, and I consider his design for the 1964 Imperial among his best. While many call It a blatant rip-off of his Thunderbird design (can you rip off your own work?) which ultimately became the stunning 1961 Lincoln Continental, it's really so much more than that in many subtle ways. I think your choice of the Imperial as a basis for a continuation of Packard is a good one, for many of the reasons you mentioned. I particularly like the overlay of the car's "C" pillar to represent the reverse-slant backlight. Some may consider it a little gimmicky, but I like it. Please continue to develop this line of "what if" thinking . . . I'm interested to see what you do with the front end.

Good work so far.