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Larry, don't forget to check the ignition timing when you readjust the dwell. At 38 degrees the points are barely breaking. 21 degrees sounds like too little. I would go for something like 28 degrees. 30 degrees is a common setting for an 8-cylinder single point distributor, but do it by the manual. Adjusting points and timing may fix your over heating problem too.

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Thanks for your helpful comments (- and kind comment Charles).

I checked timing late yesterday and found points wide at .021 so adjusted back to .016. Then checked dwell and - meter said "41" (previously 38 with points at .021), so that was a step backwards! It is a 'new' automotive dwell meter so I'm wondering if it reads 6V dwell OK, or is set for 12v. Doubt it would have a problem as it's just measuring pulse lengths isn't it -?

Next I checked timing with a strobe light . . . as I already knew, it was well advanced. Previously I'd tried to set to 6 BTDC as per Manual but it wouldn't idle. Same problem again as I rotated the dizzie . . . almost stalled. Rotated it back again and idling returned to being OK. (Vac advance was unplugged and blocked. My idle speed was 'unknown' as the you beaut combo meter I bought refused to give me an RPM reading. Once again - is it expecting a 12V car?).

Timing appeared to be around 16 degrees BTDC so it could be that idling was too fast and the governor was cutting in and advancing the timing by around 10 degrees. This is speculation, as to advance by 10 degrees seems strange at near to idle revs.

I'll place the Ultramatic in "H" and chock the wheels, to get the idling lower, to around 375rpm as per the Manual.Then will check the timing again.

IF governor is operating at low revs, that would tend to make me think I need governor springs renewed on dizzie.

Regarding the radiator cap - the top tank is the original but the cap might be a replacement one . . .Will get NatRad to check it and measure the pressure.

Would it hurt to increase the pressure to (say) 12psi?

Also, in times gone by, some would remove the thermostat in summer and run without one until the cold weather returned.

Is that a reasonable interim measure until I get things sorted out?

12 was officially sanctioned in 53 and was made a retrofit available to 51s so it should be fine. The new radiator core would handle it but if the heater core is old that might be a problem in waiting.

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Thanks Howard. Looks like a 12psi is a good idea and I'll hope it doesn't cause any leaks to spring forth. Shouldn't do so because all hoses etc are new.

I must say that I have no fear a all regarding popping the heater core - my car doesn't have a heater!!

I purchased an under-seat heater some time ago, which I'll fit sometime before winter

Another very busy couple of days as I sort out a few problems since getting the '51 'mobile'.

Regarding the timing: I checked the advance again, this time lowering the idle speed a bit more by placing the car in 'H' range and chocking the wheels. Then I hooked the Lucas strobe light up to 12volts instead of the 6volts I used last time.

I was thinking the 12V strobe might not trigger correctly on 6V and therefore I'd possibly see the chalk mark in the wrong position on the harmonic balancer.

I now see #1 firing much closer to 6degrees BTDC. Looks like around 8 degrees . . .So this seems 'acceptable' because if I rotate the dizzie any further, the engine starts to run rough and would likely stall.

On reconnecting the vacuum advance I see the timing advancing a hell of a lot (- maybe 20 degrees?) when the engine is revved. (All this is made a bit more complicated by not having a device that measures RPM. I'm going to buy a laser Tachometer soon).

Car is running / starting / idling ok and some driving around today in warm weather didn't cause any overheating . . . my 'hidden' temp gauge read around 160 to 180 degrees maximum.

Wheel alignment was done today, and the alignment shop said it was very close to OK before they did anything. Tracking was 15mm (about 3/4inch) out so my rough set-up was reasonably close it seems.

It will take quite some time to get used to driving the '51!
It feels VERY different to the family car, but that's going to be part of the enjoyment I think.

Next to be done is getting one of my two voltage regulators adjusted right. Both have problems, and seems I might have to buy a new or reconditioned one. Not so easy to get hereabouts! Probably will order one off Max Merritt if one doesn't come up on ebay.

Had a GREAT drive today with my wife. We traveled over 60 miles up hill and down dale, and the '51 performed very well.

A couple of mates came along in their '53 Clipper just in case, while we visited another Packard enthusiast who is restoring a '35 coupe.

The Auto electrician had gotten one regulator working properly so I fitted that before we left and it seems to be OK now.

Car steered well, climbed the longest steepest hill around these parts in high range (just!) and didn't overheat despite it being quite a warm to hot day. And to make it an even better day, when we got back home there were four new tyres had been delivered there! (The tyres I have on are very old so I don't trust to use them).

Now two problems are to be investigated . . .

The Ultramatic does what it should except it won't release from direct drive (or kick down into converter mode either) but stays locked in DD and I have to select Neutral as I slow to a stop or stall the car. Otherwise the Ultra seems to be very good, changing correctly and no noises / groans / shudders are evident.

I think the DD lockup problem might relate to either a dirty or faulty Governor, or a stuck valve. Will check the governor first as that seems more likely to be the cause.

Second problem is that I have filled the tank, yet found that after just a few short runs I ran out of gas. (Petrol gauge is apparently not working).

When refilling, the tank only takes around 2 gallons!

All I can think of that might cause this problem is the pickup tube could have a hole in it towards the top of the tank, and pump is sucking air after a small amount of fuel has been used. (The tank is in very good condition, still is shiny silver inside so a hole in the pickup is a surprise to me).

Can anyone advise if a small optic fibre camera is able to be used to see inside the tank?

And IF I have a hole in the line, will that mean cutting a hole in the tank to get access to the tube, or is there a better way to fix the hole?

Would chemical lining be a good way to fix the hole problem?

On the trans, believe Ross has mentioned the dirty governor as the most likely culprit in not dropping out when coming to a stop. According to Packard that should happen at about 11 mph. Believe cleaning the governor would be easier as a first try than dropping the pan for the valve. I would also verify the throttle linkage adjustment.


You can use a camera on the tank but it would be best at the sender opening as I doubt you could see much from the fill pipe. To give an idea of what you will see here is a photo of a tank interior Ross posted a year or two ago..

If the tank is stock having a pinhole that close to the top and only needing two gallons is odd. The inlet line enters at approx 1/2 tank and first bend that is vulnerable is there. The second point that usually goes is the top of U bend before it drops to the pickup area and is at approx 1/4 tank. At that low gallons of use before problems would wonder if the cap vent hole is open or if something is sloshing around and intermittently blocking the inlet opening.

I doubt any coating would reliably hit the exact spot needed and stay but maybe. If you do use one be sure not to leave the tank flat as it dries. The little triangular depression at the bottom of fuel line opening has filled with the surplus and clogged the line opening thoroughly on more than one tank.

It is too bad freight costs so much to Australia because the price of Kanters new repro tanks is less than what has typically been reported for a quality repair.

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Even before you clean the governor, you could give the car several kickdowns at say 40 to help loosen up the shift valve. If that does not work, then it is on to cleaning the governor, and then after that the valve body.

Lee,

Great way to test your Packard, in company with another and visiting another one as well! Interested in what tyres you decided to go with after our conversation earlier this week. Also, appears your overheating drama has been overcome?

Thank you Howard and Ross for this very helpful info. So good to have a pic of the dissected tank and to see what lies therein.

Regarding the petrol problem, I will drive a quiet road until I run out of gas, and refill from container(s) to see if it is a ?-tank, or ?-tank problem (or perhaps something else). That will be more enjoyable than taking out the bung and measuring what drains from the tank!

Will try a few kick-downs as suggested before anything else is attempted to fix the Ultramatic problem.

Mal, we had a good social get-together here with Chris and Michael.

I think the overheating was a 'one-off', due mainly to letting the car idle for 5-10 minutes immediately after a drive (while I fiddled around checking this and that). However the timing was possibly too advanced (- difficult to tell, see post above re: high idling revs and using a 12V strobe on 6Volts).

During the long drive yesterday the temp gauge sat well to the cool side of mid-point the whole time.

I also fitted a new cap . . . had to settle for a new 7psi one as NatRad didn't have a 12psi in stock. The new cap had quite a lot more spring tension than the old 7psi one and is a better seal (- new rubber) so that will help. Old cap was 'chirping' as vapour was forcing its way past.

Time will tell if I need to go to a 12psi cap.