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Tires for a 1939 Sedan 6-cyl
#1
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JIMO
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I am nearing completion of restoration. heard pro and cons of either using original bias 650-16 tires or radials. Also, is there any modern day sized tire that will function on this vehicle. Asked tire stores but they keep sending me to Coker for original size - very expensive tires . Any thoughts about bias vs. radials, and an inexpensive alternate tire size.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 16:24
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Re: Tires for a 1939 Sedan 6-cyl
#2
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longjohn
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I had a similar decision to make a couple of years ago on my 39 120. It takes a slightly wider tire: 7.00x16. I went with a bias ply from Lester. They are expensive but they drive nice and handle great.
The problem that you are going to have with radials is they are too wide in 16" tires. You will need to find the tallest, narrowest radial tires available to mimic the 6.50x16. When I went through this a couple of years ago, the narrowest tires i could find were still over 1/2" wider than the 7.00's and smaller in diameter, too. So just not a good fit. Maybe someone makes a better match now.

Posted on: 2015/4/16 18:33
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Re: Tires for a 1939 Sedan 6-cyl
#3
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39SixSedanMan
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I was on the forum a couple days ago and thought I had completed the response below to your post:

Looks like a few days have passed with no responses to this. I fully expect there to be several other existing threads on the Tire Topics:
Radial vs. Bias Ply and ride, safety, longevity, appearance/authenticity

White Wall vs. Black Wall: authenticity, optional equipment, period correct average car equipment, personal taste

Manufacturers: Coker Bias Ply or Radial, DiamondBack Radial, Universal Tire, Lucas Tire, or modern white or blackwall; This includes manufacturing processes that are either modern radial and state of the art manufacturing, old molds with original manufacturing methods, new molds with slight improvements to bias technology manufacturing

Opinions, Facts, Personal Research and Decision Making: All of the vendors listed have good reputations for what they do and sell. Many people have good and not so good things to say about the value definition of both technologies, others' opinions, celebrity opinions, stories heard from a well known source or friend of a friend and much more. In addition, some people expect and drive vintage cars as if they were modern cars where safety, handling, braking, etc are considered.

I can share my own needs and opinions that lead to my choice; My car is a restored 39 Six Sedan, for which I sought to keep stock with several exceptions for Safety and Driveability, such as LED tail/brake lights with third LED brake light, seatbelts, turn signals at four corners, and radial tires. I've driven the car with both bias ply and radials and have driven other similar cars and conclude the radials ride and steer better and as an engineer with 15+ years in brake, suspension and safety systems, I know that the radial tire failure rates of occurrence and the immediate driver/vehicle impact of a blown tire are much better than that of bias ply tires. This, combined with my definition of safety for me and my passengers are the reasons I've chosen radial tires.

I'd like to believe I make choices only after objective scrutiny, objective being the key word there.

I have radial wide white wall tires from DiamondBack, a company which takes a modern radial tire from among modern manufacturers and scuffs the sidewalls to vulcanize white rubber over the wall. They've been on the car for several years and am quite happy with them. They were created from a light duty truck tire that has a track profile most like that of the true period correct bias ply offerings. I'll be purchasing tires soon and am currently weighing only the radial options from the multiple suppliers.

As I mentioned, I expect (should probably say 'know') there are existing threads here at PackardInfo on tire choice, but when it comes down to your decision, it comes down to you educating yourself on the cost, product offerings, opinions, then weighing it all against your needs for drivability, degree of authenticity of look, safety, and cost.

I hope this helps.
Pat

Posted on: 2015/4/17 12:52
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Re: Tires for a 1939 Sedan 6-cyl
#4
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West Peterson
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Interesting and well thought out response, Pat.
Let me just add that I have done a drive test with almost identical prewar cars both with rebuilt front ends, one using radials and one using bias ply. There was little or no difference in the way the radial tire felt over the bias ply.

Furthermore, radial tires can be MORE dangerous than bias ply tires for the mere fact that many people will be unwilling to replace their radial tires every 5 years after only driving 5-10,000 miles.

For that reason alone, I feel bias ply tires (on prewar cars) are safer and less expensive.

Posted on: 2015/4/17 14:37
West Peterson
1940 Packard 1808 w/Factory Air
1947 Chrysler Town and Country sedan
1970 Camaro RS

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4307&forum=10

aaca.org/
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Re: Tires for a 1939 Sedan 6-cyl
#5
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RogerDetroit
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For all the technical and safety reasons Pat cited above I too went for the Diamondback radials on my 1941 120 Business Coupe. The bia-ply tires on 1941 Su8 convertible sedan are "aging out" and they will be replaced with Diamondback radials also.

I want the better handling, easier ride that a radial offers when I am driving my cars.

I know how to read a date code on the tires and I know that tires become harder over time. Six to ten years is age range of a tire mostly depending on your storage methods, i.e. exposure to sun, high temps, etc. You might find this article interesting:edmunds.com/car-care/how-old-and-dangerous-are-your-tires.html

Finally, I am not aware that bias-ply tires use a different rubber compound than radials. Logically, you would expect that both bias-ply tires and radials would "age out" over the same time period.

Posted on: 2015/4/17 20:17
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1941 Model 160 Convertible Sedan
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Re: Tires for a 1939 Sedan 6-cyl
#6
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West Peterson
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... except that radials do not have inner tubes, which results in a big difference.

I really don't understand the implication that there's a big difference in handling for prewar cars equipped with radial tires. I once thought that because the bias tires on my 1940 Packard are quite old and possibly of better manufacture. However, I recently put on about 1,000 miles in our 1940 Lincoln with relatively new tires, and never once thought the car needed radial tires so it could handle better ... 75mph on the freeway or 55mph on the side roads, it was all good.

All in all, I couldn't be more comfortable and confident while driving with bias ply tires. If I didn't drive my car(s) as much as I do (cross-country trips as opposed to crosstown trips), I wouldn't be extolling their virtues.

Posted on: 2015/4/17 23:01
West Peterson
1940 Packard 1808 w/Factory Air
1947 Chrysler Town and Country sedan
1970 Camaro RS

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4307&forum=10

aaca.org/
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Re: Tires for a 1939 Sedan 6-cyl
#7
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Ozstatman
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West,
Going , what about the virtues of WWW's?

Posted on: 2015/4/17 23:19
Mal
/o[]o\
====

Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD

1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD

1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

What's this?
Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry!
Here's how!
Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com
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Re: Tires for a 1939 Sedan 6-cyl
#8
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West Peterson
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How's this?:
A car with dirty white sidewalls looks better than a car with dirty black sidewalls.

Posted on: 2015/4/17 23:51
West Peterson
1940 Packard 1808 w/Factory Air
1947 Chrysler Town and Country sedan
1970 Camaro RS

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4307&forum=10

aaca.org/
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Re: Tires for a 1939 Sedan 6-cyl
#9
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39SixSedanMan
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West,
Responding to your first response on this thread.

So, help me understand your point correctly. First, if any maintenance aspect of a car is ignored, it can be dangerous. I think this is what you are saying:

1. You are saying that classic radials are more expensive than bias ply, owners will be less inclined and likely to replace them at the 5 year mark, as opposed to bias ply tires? Therefore, the owner is indirectly accepting the decision to keep radial tires longer than the equivalent bias ply owner? In addition, that the average bias ply owner replaces his/her tires when they are 5 years old, regardless of mileage?

2.You are saying the decline of Radial tires' safety from the 'when new at zero miles and zero age' condition to when they are five years old, means they are unsafe after 5 years and should be replaced due to material degradation, regardless of mileage?


If so, I do not agree. Although after the Firestone/Ford legal settlement years ago, the TREAD act required better date coding on tires, that does not mean that the radial tires are quickly unsafe after 5 years. It is true that any tire material dries over its useful life and tire shops recommend replacement beginning around 7 years, that is for a tire usage schedule for a modern driver that includes typically higher mileage, more seasonal exposure. For tires that run a lesser usage schedule, including indoor storage, such as our hobby cars, it is legitimate to expect more.

Repeating the fact that a blow out on a bias ply results in a significantly compromised sidewall load carrying capability, the immediate result is an erratic steering input and difficult control. Radial tire construction has significantly reduced such a result after a blow out, not to mention the fact that other than puncture, blow outs are nearly non existent due to radial technology. Not so for bias ply. Bias ply tires had inner tubes because the technology could not seal against the rim.

Regarding reliability and safety, these are just a couple of the reasons bias ply tires were replaced. TO me, these are facts.

Pat

Posted on: 2015/4/18 20:43
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Re: Tires for a 1939 Sedan 6-cyl
#10
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West Peterson
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Radial tires on a prewar car are akin to sneakers on a ballroom dancer. While it looks funny, there's less chance of ankle injury if the dancer (woman) is wearing sneakers rather than high heals. Instead of using sneakers, she dances according to conditions.

I will not give up promoting bias ply tires, especially for anyone who only drives their car 2-5000 miles per year, and double especially for anyone who rarely makes it past the 50mph mark.

In my opinion, if someone's car is acting very dangerously on the road, it is more than likely due to something being wrong with the car, not the tire, and putting radials on for the immediate benefit is masking a another problem.

No expert has ever stated that bias ply tires are unsafe. and with today's modern materials, bias ply tires are much more safe than 70 years ago.

I'm used to the characteristics of bias ply tires, and have no problems whatsoever. When I get out of my Crossfire and hop into my Packard, I fully expect a different driving experience. If I want to drive a car that handles like the Crossfire, I use the Crossfire. If I want the experience of a Packard, I drive the Packard.

In my opinion, safety is determined by the the competency of the driver -- not the tires or even the car itself -- taking into account the conditions of the road and the car. When the road is wet, I slow way down while driving the Packard ... don't really have to do that in the Crossfire. If the road has big ruts, I slow down a little, sometimes change lanes. Usually, within a few miles, the road improves and I resume a comfortable speed.

Posted on: 2015/4/19 12:25
West Peterson
1940 Packard 1808 w/Factory Air
1947 Chrysler Town and Country sedan
1970 Camaro RS

packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4307&forum=10

aaca.org/
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