Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Quote:
Nein, leider nicht. Nur bei Gro?serienfahrzeugen kannst Du sicher sein, da? jede Pr?fstelle Zugriff auf die zertifizierten Daten des Herstellers hat. Ohne Datenblatt hast Du ein Problem Alex.

No, unfortunately not! Only high-volume production has a "CoC" (Certificate of Conformity). Without data sheet you have a bad problem.

I was doing some logical reasoning, sorry. If new Saabs are being imported, it is expected they will drive 10,000 miles/year, and if there are 1000 imported they will make a sizeable amount of "noise" in the 10 milllion total miles per year they are driven. Makes sense to be sure they comply.

If you import one 1949 Packard which might be driven 1000 miles a year, the contribuiton to public noise will be 1/100,000 that of the Saab, Why bother??

Then again, if you restrict me from posting on this forum lots of garbage will be saved from the ethernet.

A couple of technical questions. The first has already been asked, but was this information required in 1949? If not, then your car should not require it now.

Second, if the information is required, how official must be the source? Could an official of the Packard club of the US make up a suitable data sheet, and would this be accepted by the authorities?

I ask these questions because it appears the Packard company did not furnish such a data sheet in 1949. But a Packard technical expert may be able to assemble part of the data from available sources and measure the rest.

Alex, ich wei? nicht, ob noch aktuell, aber vor einigen Jahren war es noch ?blich, ?ber den T?V Augsburg (Abteilung Internationale Gutachten) ein Datenblatt zu beauftragen. Die Anfrage selbst ist kostenlos und falls man dort ein Datenblatt erstellen kann und Du dies beauftragst, dann kostet es ca. 100 Euro. Das mag nach sehr viel klingen, ist aber aber um ein Vielfaches g?nstiger und schneller als eine Vollabnahme. Informiere mich bitte bei Gelegenheit ?ber den Erfolg.

--> Tel. +49 (0) 821 5904161

--> Fax. +49 (0) 821 5904159

Falls die Nummern nicht mehr aktuell sein sollten, geh hier lang.


The above given German phone number connects you to a TUV-department in charge for data sheets.

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Quote:
Rusty, doubtless a Packard technical expert would be able to provide the required data. The liability law requires a publicly appointed and sworn German surveyor.

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Asbestos, leaded fuel and other carcinogenic substances, environmental pollution, occupant protection,... you know that we have (and often have to have) different answers than 60 years before. Traffic density, ecological sensibility, traffic law, fireprotection and so forth.

I'm aware that some of the remarks work like a red rag to a bull (e.g. what is a 49 Packard compared to a permanent repository for nuclear waste etc.). Please try to also take into consideration that a national legislator has to work with aggregated requirements while we are daydreamers who would like to live our subjective anachronism amidst a modern world.
I think that a politican is no stranger to longing for easy answers. (Nor me.)





[picture source: www.autoservice-clauss.de]

I know here in Canada exceptions are made for old cars. For example a car does not need to have equipment that was not required when it was built. A 1951 or newer car must have turn signals because they became mandatory in that year. But a pre 1951 car does not need them.

It is perfectly legal to drive a 1908 car with no front brakes, no windshield wipers, no air bags, no seat belts, and no front doors if that is how it came when new. But whatever a car came with, that equipment must be in working order.

If they required this data in 1949 they should have it on file.

How is a publicly sworn surveyor supposed to know the specs of a 1949 car he has never seen? Does he look it up or just guess?

Am also puzzled by your reference to liability laws. How does having the top speed, noise level or weight on front and rear axle printed on the license document affect safety?

By the way I have a German registration document from 1984. It came with my 1975 Porsche 911. It contains a lot of interesting information but I do not see how it makes the car any safer.

I find it hard to believe any straight eight Packard sedan had a top speed of 110 unless you mean on an uncorrected speedometer.

In fact I do not believe any American stock car was capable of over 100, between 1937 (supercharged Cord) and 1951 (Chrysler New Yorker sedan, 180HP hemi V8, officially timed at 100.13 MPH on Daytona Beach during Speed Week).

Rusty, it perhaps based on a misunderstanding. In Germany we have such exceptions too. Many thousand old cars drive on our roads.
Instead of claryfing all open questions beforehand Alex acted youthful optimistic and just imported his car. Ok, now he is looking for the best way to register it.
Germany has specific regulations just like every other nation.

Alexander,

I believe you know what has to be done to satisfy the regulatory authorities in Germany. I think all you were trying to do was save time and money in coming up with the answers the authorities require. Time, in that, if the answers could be readily provided by asking questions in this Forum you'd be quickly able to move on. Money, in that, there are ways to measure noise, weight, weight distribution but they all come at a cost. The only measure I wouldn't like to undertake is that for top speed, wouldn't want to push a 62 year old Packard into the region of 100mph(160kmh)! Although I understand your wonderful autobahns are more than capable of accommodating that speed and more. All that said, I suggest you bite the bullet and start booking noise tests, weighings, etc so you can get your lovely '49 Club Sedan on the road as soon possible to really enjoy it.

And although I welcomed you previously to PackardInfo in this thread I didn't make my customary request for you to include your '49 Deluxe Eight Club Sedan in the Packard Owners Registry because you didn't yet have the car. But now that you do, I'm taking this opportunity to request you to do so.

@Guscha
[QUOTE]
"Instead of claryfing all open questions beforehand Alex acted youthful optimistic and just imported his car."

Not quite so, Guscha.
After I've bought the car I did a real deep research of the available information on this and other websites, contacted other owners or people, who have to do with Packards.
I believe that my data sheet is rather complete.
I have converted all data into metric and have supplied a real thick file of information to the T?V.

However, I could not find the data, which are still required (see my opener).
I think, just because they were not of any interest at the time, when the car was built.
(It is still amazing for me, that the top-speed was of no importance back in the 40ies... :) )



@Rusty
[QUOTE:]
"...if the information is required, how official must be the source? Could an official of the Packard club of the US make up a suitable data sheet, and would this be accepted by the authorities?"

In difference to Guscha I believe, that a data sheet by a US Packard Club could well do the job !!!
There are so many people with deep knowledge about the Packards here on this forum and around, that a realistic data sheet could rather easily be produced.

Let's face it.
If the Packard has a top speed of 90 or 100 or 110 mph in the papers doesn't really matter.
It doesn't change the car and wouldn't really affect registration. Unless there would be an issue with tuned up engines and going over a speed, which the car was not built for. That could create legal and insurance issues.
But for a classical car, which shall remain in most original state, that should not be important.

Now we are dealing with just buerocracy. There needs to be some values in the papers, and if some reasonable value can be supplied by a source like a Packard Club, I believe strongly, that would do the job.


@Ozstatman
[QUOTE:]
I believe you know what has to be done to satisfy the regulatory authorities in Germany. I think all you were trying to do was save time and money in coming up with the answers the authorities require. Time, in that, if the answers could be readily provided by asking questions in this Forum you'd be quickly able to move on. Money, in that, there are ways to measure noise, weight, weight distribution but they all come at a cost. The only measure I wouldn't like to undertake is that for top speed, wouldn't want to push a 62 year old Packard into the region of 100mph(160kmh)! Although I understand your wonderful autobahns are more than capable of accommodating that speed and more. All that said, I suggest you bite the bullet and start booking noise tests, weighings, etc so you can get your lovely '49 Club Sedan on the road as soon possible to really enjoy it.

You are quite right, Ozstatman.
I was trying to save time ! If such figures could have been provided here, I could have moved on quickly and deliver the data this week, before the responsible guy goes on holidays for two weeks.
Another loss of time, before I can put her on the road. :(

I am completely aware and ready to pay for the measuring procedures, if needed.
Shipping the car to Germany was already quite costly, so I knew, what I was facing. If necessary, I will pay.
Just the further delay bugs me.

I wanted to drive my 88-year old mother to her birthday party with the Packard, but this I obvioulsy have to forget about....


And yes, once the car has a license plate, I will register.

Amazing to me is however, how little owners of 2265's are registered up to now....