Happy 4th of July and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
60 user(s) are online (45 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 0
Guests: 60

more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal



(1) 2 3 4 ... 10 »

Proud New Owner of a 49 Packard Club Sedan
#1
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

PackardusOctavus
See User information
I just got my dream car, a Packard 8 Club Sedan with Flow Thru styling! Its a 288, three speed and overdrive. Its pretty highly optioned. It has a few annoying issues that I need help with.

1. It seems to run awfully hot. Its not losing coolant, but after about 5 miles the temp gauge is all the way over. Radiator has been recored, and block has been flushed. I'm afraid to drive it further for fear of warping the head or otherwise damaging the engine. I have not eyebaled the thermostat to see if there is one there, or if it is correct.


2. The overdrive is not functional. It appears to be fully wired, but will not engage. The knob was all the way in. I (unfortunately) decided to mess with the knob. It got it out about half an inch, but no further. I could then hear the overdrive solenoid clicking, so I removed the fuse from the OD relay. This stopped the clicking, but something was still going on, as the battery kept draining and was dead overnight. I disconnected the ignition side of the overdrive lockout switch, and the battery no longer drains. Could the lockout switch be bad, or stuck in an on position? Perhaps it is connected backwards? How do I tell if its connected backwards? Shouldn't the knob be able to come further out?


3. Where does the ground wire for the heater motor attach? I can't find anything obvious within it s reach.


4. What is the foglight wiring? Is there a relay somewhere?


5. Can someone explain the oil pressure sending unit? Mine seems to have a rubber tube coming off of it that goes nowhere.


5a. The oil filter is not plumbed. Where does the return line go, and does the oil pressure sending unit have an aperture for the "in" to the oil filter? Its a 288; no hydraulic lifters.


6. What is the deal with the radio? What is a "Control Head?"

7. What's the deal with the starter button? I understand that the gas pedal starter was a nightmare so they went with a dash mounted button. However, the 49 Club Sedan has a dash button, but my 49 parts car does not, and I see no gas pedal starter.


All information will be greatly appreciated! I'll post pics soon.

Posted on: 2018/9/4 17:00
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Proud New Owner of a 49 Packard Club Sedan
#2
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

Ozstatman
See User information
G'day PackardusOctavus,
to PackardInfo and congratulations on your "new" '49 Club Sedan. Besides posting pic's soon I invite you to include it in the Packard Owner's Registry. Likewise with the 48/49/50 Parts Sedan in this thread.

Posted on: 2018/9/4 18:26
Mal
/o[]o\
====

Bowral, Southern Highlands of NSW, Australia
"Out of chaos comes order" - Nietzsche.

1938 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

1941 One-Twenty Club Coupe - SOLD

1948 Super Eight Limo, chassis RHD - SOLD

1950 Eight Touring Sedan - SOLD

What's this?
Put your Packard in the Packard Vehicle Registry!
Here's how!
Any questions - PM or email me at ozstatman@gmail.com
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Proud New Owner of a 49 Packard Club Sedan
#3
Home away from home
Home away from home

Fish'n Jim
See User information
#7 - look at the back of carburetor and see if there's wires going to and from a small terminal device on it. That's the pedal starter, when you depress the pedal, the carb linkage triggers that switch which engages the starter. One can connect a parallel momentary switch on the dash to do the same function but the carb wiring needs to be by-passed/eliminated.
If it works don't mess with it.
1. I'd say running hot is not normal for this car. So I'd be checking everything in the cooling system. Like hows the water pump?
5 I believe the oil pressure is a regular old pressure trans/ switch that screws in. I'd have to go look.
5a I believe the optional oil filter diagram is in the manual which can be found on this site into literature section. You don't really need it, because they came without, but it's better to having working and change oil frequently.
I figure someone else will answer or correct me.

Posted on: 2018/9/4 18:44
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Proud New Owner of a 49 Packard Club Sedan
#4
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
1. The 22-23 series 48-50 can be a bit prone to running hot. The radiators were adequate but some feel the air intake area was somewhat restricted. If the cooling system is in good condition and engine timing is OK they will run cool. Make sure someone didn't skimp on the size of the radiator during the recore Some have tried to have very inexpensive recores done with the thickness or number of cores in the radiator cooling area actually reduced on top of what some felt to be an adequate but marginal radiator in the first place. There is also a brass water distribution tube behind the water pump which can be clogged or in some cases, if an aftermarket steel tube was installed, rusted away. Those tubes are frequently ignored when cooling issues are looked into and have caused many cases of overheating. Several have had issues with the vacuum advance diaphragm leaking so the advance was not working thus affecting the timing. Vacuum leaks elsewhere also can cause the engine to run lean.

2. The overdrive knob should pull all the way out. There is a wire core inside the actuating cable which can rust or bend and prevent the knob from moving. Also road debris, mud and rust can seize a rod which slips inside a tube at the clevis down on the side of the OD which prevents the lever from moving. Also check the cable housing at the rear of the knob bracket. Frequently the crimped connection holding the cable to the housing splits so cable pulls away. If that happens no motion is transmitted down to the OD lever. The wires on the switch don't matter side to side. It just breaks the power to the OD relay so the relay cannot energize when the knob is out. It is normally open until the knob is about 1/4" from all the way pushed in. If the battery is draining the switch could be shorted but if stock wiring it and the relay should be powered from the ign switch and off when key is off. Having the drain stop with fuse removal would indicate a bad relay or else a miswire keeping the relay or solenoid energized.

3. Heater ground is just the wire terminal under a sheetmetal screw into the firewall a few inches away from the motor.

4. Foglites had their own switch. No relay. If the car was not equipped with the lights the switch was usually not there and the knob was held by a fixed stud to keep the position. If a customer wanted the option later then the stud was removed and switch mounted and knob reattached to the switch.

5. The oil gauge is electric thermal type and the sender for the 22-23 series is bimetal heater type instead of straight resistance which was was used in later cars. The original senders may be hard to come by so it is possible someone has tried to install a later type not compatible with the gauge. In either case there would not be any rubber tube connected with it. How about a photo and maybe we can see what is going on. The oil filter is the bypass type and gets oil from a tee fitting on the bottom port on the drivers side of the engine where the sender mounts. If the car has solid lifters it is OK to put return oil back into the top port but if the car has hydraulic lifters then the return oil is dumped into crankcase. There is then a 4 way fitting on the bottom with a small pigtail tube which connects the bottom and top ports so the lifters get a good supply of oil to stay pumped up.

6. The 49 radio is a single large unit mounted entirely in the dash. The prewar radios were in two pieces -- a control box mounted on the firewall connected by wires and mechanical cables to a small head in the dash which only held the knobs and buttons.

7. Your car did not originally have a starter button but it was sometimes added by independent garages for someone who had issues with the regular starter. Sometimes the original starter circuit was bypassed entirely using only the button and other times it was left intact and both could be used. The actual switch is a black oblong object on the back of the carb which has two wires connected to it. The accelerator linkage and a mechanism in the carb closes the switch when the accelerator is pushed to the floor. When the engine starts vacuum lifts a steel ball in the carb mechanism which prevents the switch from operating again until the engine is stopped and vacuum is gone. The accelerator starter by itself was not much of an issue and other cars - Buick for one - used it longer than Packard did but there are adjustments that could be needed. I think the biggest issue is if the engine quits or starter miscranks so engine needs more than one or two tries to restart each time the accelerator is pressed more gas is pumped in the carb to the point engine can flood. That is why many added a pushbutton.

Posted on: 2018/9/4 18:53
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Proud New Owner of a 49 Packard Club Sedan
#5
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

50 2382
See User information
Congrats on the new car!
I have some answers but others will also help correct me!

1. It seems to run awfully hot. Its not losing coolant, but after about 5 miles the temp gauge is all the way over. Radiator has been recored, and block has been flushed. I'm afraid to drive it further for fear of warping the head or otherwise damaging the engine. I have not eyebaled the thermostat to see if there is one there, or if it is correct.
Several things can cause it to run hot...
1. Thermostat (replace it, a cheap insurance policy)
2. Bad water pump, could be spinning the pulley and not the impeller. (a long shot).
3. Timing to far advanced.
4. Water distribution tube plugged/decayed.


2. The overdrive is not functional. It appears to be fully wired, but will not engage. The knob was all the way in. I (unfortunately) decided to mess with the knob. It got it out about half an inch, but no further. I could then hear the overdrive solenoid clicking, so I removed the fuse from the OD relay. This stopped the clicking, but something was still going on, as the battery kept draining and was dead overnight.

The fuse is only part of the OD circuit, it protects the solinoid in the overdrive. The relay should not close when the iginition is off. Which OD do you have R-9 or R-11? I jsut got through working on mine. My cable was bent and I had another one made from a shop in CA. There is a switch in the cable you have and it supplies power from the ignition switch (battery) to the OD relay. The cable I had made didn't have a switch and so I wired a toggle switch in place of the one embedded in the cable you have. (I made a new bracket to hold the cable and the switch.)

I disconnected the ignition side of the overdrive lockout switch, and the battery no longer drains. Could the lockout switch be bad, or stuck in an on position?

This depends on where they took the power for your firewall relay.

Perhaps it is connected backwards? How do I tell if its connected backwards?

The switch cant be connected backwards and it is in series with the downstream relay.

Shouldn't the knob be able to come further out?

Yes.

There is a lot of great information on the OD in Section 7 of the manuals in this website.


3. Where does the ground wire for the heater motor attach? I can't find anything obvious within it s reach.

Don't know sorry, mine works.


4. What is the foglight wiring? Is there a relay somewhere?

I haven't found one but considering the current draw there should be.

5. Can someone explain the oil pressure sending unit? Mine seems to have a rubber tube coming off of it that goes nowhere.


5a. The oil filter is not plumbed. Where does the return line go, and does the oil pressure sending unit have an aperture for the "in" to the oil filter? Its a 288; no hydraulic lifters.

The oil filter is fed from a tee at the bottom center of the block on the drivers side. (This is also where the oil pressure sender goes (the other side of the tee). Directly above this tee there is another fitting for the return oil from the filter.
See Section 5 Engine in the manuals section.




6. What is the deal with the radio? What is a "Control Head?"

Radio for 49-50 was a self contained unit. In other early cars the actual radio looked like a heater mounted inside of the firewall and there were flexible cables from the unit in the dash "control head" that operated the firewall unit. Yours should be a single unit.

7. What's the deal with the starter button? I understand that the gas pedal starter was a nightmare so they went with a dash mounted button. However, the 49 Club Sedan has a dash button, but my 49 parts car does not, and I see no gas pedal starter.

The gas pedal starter was a switch on the engine side of the firewall connected to the starter solenoid through a vacuum switch in the carburetor. Look at the carb on your parts car for wires connected to a small black thingy. These didn't work too well and so a lot of our cars did away with them. (I have a starter button).

I wasn't shouting I was using bold letters to make this easier to read....

Posted on: 2018/9/4 19:01
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Proud New Owner of a 49 Packard Club Sedan
#6
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

Joe D'Agostino
See User information
These are all great suggestions.

Does it run hot at idle or when the car is moving or both?
Mine ran hot and I did many things to cool it down.

Here is what I learned:

Water distribution tube was clogged. Radiator needed replacing. The car had the wrong muffler on it. The correct one has a straight through baffle to limit the backpressure.
One of our members suggested that I move the vacuum advance to the intake manifold instead of using the ported slot under the carburetor. That gave me vacuum advance even at idle and it helped.

Someone suggested that I use a 140 degree thermostat. But I learned that the 160 degree thermostat had a wider mouth when open than the 140 degree thermostat did.

For good cooling, you are looking for good fluid flow and good air flow.
I improved my fluid flow with the 160 degree thermostat since it had a wider opening.

All of these things helped.

My car is a lot better than it used to be but I still have an electric 6 volt pusher fan mounted on the front of the radiator and I turn it on if I get stuck in traffic on a very hot day. Otherwise, I don't need it.

I would like to add one more suggestion that is not related to cooling but I think it is good for all of us to consider. I added an ignition kill switch so that when I turn over the engine, I can wait for the mechanical oil pump to bring up the pressure a little bit before I allow the engine to start. In this way, I make sure that I minimize engine wear by avoiding a "dry start" as much as possible.

Posted on: 2018/9/4 20:19
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Proud New Owner of a 49 Packard Club Sedan
#7
Home away from home
Home away from home

Ross
See User information
Not to be disagreeable, but to correct a couple of points that have come up before they are enshrined forever as truth in the cloud:

In 47 years of Packard ownership and 25 years of working on them full time I have not found the carburetor starter switches to be any sort of significant problem. If the carburetor is in standard condition with a functioning choke unloader they work just fine and are a neat feature. Can be handy to have a pushbutton in parallel for tuneups or other work, but they are not needed.

Second, getting oil to the bearings before a start is an unnecessary complication. The bearings are not wearing in that condition. While grinding along on the starter the rings and camshaft are not getting a thing and that is where any remotely significant wear takes place. The best thing is that the engine starts promptly so that the oil pressure comes up quickly and everything gets lubed asap. All of the significant wear I see in straight Packard engines is in the upper ring area. The bearings generally only succumb to years of dirty oil, or in the case of V-8s, aeration.

Posted on: 2018/9/5 7:09
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Proud New Owner of a 49 Packard Club Sedan
#8
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

PackardusOctavus
See User information
After a couple of visits, I figured out that the line "Add your Packard" etc was not just a suggestion, but a LINK!!! Seven years of education pays off again!
Will put the info on soon.

Posted on: 2018/9/5 8:18
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Proud New Owner of a 49 Packard Club Sedan
#9
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

PackardusOctavus
See User information
I'll reply to your post, as it includes Howard's kind comments. My radiator guy says that the rad is great and that system is working properly, so I'll bet it is the timing. I'll check that. I Hope its not the Water dist tube, as that is a huge pain to fix. I had to pull it out of my 51 Plymouth. After taking the whole front off I had to weld a slidehammer to it to get it out. Then the replacement one would not go IN. I'll check the timing first!


Re Overdrive, I'll pull the cable and see what that is about. It's probably frozen in the armour.

I'll get pics of the oil pressure sender and post them. I now understand how its supposed to work, and just have to see what I've got.


See other post re gas pedal starter. Also, I have a GIGANTIC gas pedal, not the normal one. It looks like an 18 wheeler pedal, but is rubber. Is there any documentation for an optional gas pedal from Packard, or is it aftermarket?


Thank you for all of your suggestions and comments. Let me get under it and get some pics and I'll be back!

Posted on: 2018/9/5 8:36
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Proud New Owner of a 49 Packard Club Sedan
#10
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away

PackardusOctavus
See User information
Here are pics of the oil pressure sending unit. The brown extension cord thing is a block heater. I can't get under the sender to see what the plumbing is, but it must be at least a T, as one hole is filled with the sender and the other with the tube that goes back to the block. This seems odd, as the 288s I've seen have hole so the oil from the filter drains back into the block, rather than a pigtail that goes into what appears to be an oil gallery. I guess its a 288, but honestly I have not checked. All of the things I've seen with "pigtails" reference the 356 and hydraulic lifters. Hmmm....

It actually does not have a rubber tube coming out of it, but rather the short shiny metal tube. What the heck is that? Aperture to atmosphere presure for the sending unit? Small device to annoy owner?


Of course, I put the fuse back int othe overdrive relay, and now the .................... battery is dead again. Its on the charger. Again.

Attach file:



jpg  (216.27 KB)
182383_5b8ffc0a2a57e.jpg 1920X1440 px

jpg  (178.08 KB)
182383_5b8ffc15ac5f9.jpg 1920X1440 px

jpg  (158.57 KB)
182383_5b8ffc2707731.jpg 1920X1440 px

jpg  (285.18 KB)
182383_5b8ffc35b52d8.jpg 1920X1440 px

Posted on: 2018/9/5 11:03
 Top  Print 
 




(1) 2 3 4 ... 10 »




Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
1935 - Loading dock of the Packard Plant.
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2021, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved