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'55 fuel line issues
#1
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onyerleft
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My '55 Clipper Super with 78K miles has been running great, with new oil pump and various corrosion issues cleaned up.

In the last two months it's begun stalling unpredictably while driving. Previous owner installed an electric fuel pump which has worked well, and when it's stalled I've found I can start the car by turning on the pump for 10 seconds before turning the key to Start.

I thought air might be getting into the fuel line somehow, after the fuel pump but before the carburetor. But it could be contamination in the fuel line, or tank.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Posted on: 2019/3/17 16:06
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Re: '55 fuel line issues
#2
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HH56
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As with any fuel line, if it has lost one of the clamps and is rubbing against the frame somewhere a wear spot could develop and allow air to enter. There may or may not be a wet area around the spot with a pump in the line past a hole but if the electric pump is at the rear and pushing fuel past any hole then moisture would probably be present. An accidental crimp in the line caused by something hitting it is another thing that has affected flow. If there is rust sediment in the tank, flakes of rust could have been sucked into the fuel pump and there could be enough circulating in the sediment bowl to intermittently clog the inlet screen in the bottom of the pump. The electric pump might have enough pressure and volume to push enough fuel past the clog to keep the engine running. If you have one of the ceramic fuel filters next to the carb it might look clean but varnish has been known to clog those sufficiently that air and some fuel will still pass but full fuel flow is restricted enough to just barely keep the engine running at not much more than fast idle.

Others have experienced sediment or trash in the tank being sucked in to the small pickup area below the fuel inlet and momentarily block fuel delivery. Another known issue is rust pinholes in the pickup line inside the tank which allows air to be sucked in. The mechanical pump will have issues with this since air will be a significant part of what the pump can pull but unless the hole is large the greater flow and delivery of the electric pump can frequently overcome the added air and deliver enough fuel to keep the car running. The pinhole issues can become obvious in a couple of spots as the fuel level in the tank drops below the pickup tube exposing the holes to air. One spot is just below half full and the other is right around a quarter full.

If the gas cap has been changed recently, Packards need a vented cap. One fairly common issue has been the inadvertent use of a modern non vented cap which because of the suction of the pump and a sealed cap eventually causes fuel delivery to stop.

Here is a photo of the inner 51-6 tank that Ross provided. Some arrows have been added showing where the pinholes and blockage problems develop.

Attach file:



jpg  (114.07 KB)
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Posted on: 2019/3/17 16:50
Howard
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Re: '55 fuel line issues
#3
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DavidPackard
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Hello onyerleft;

Look at the third page of the Post-War 1946-54 forum for a tread titled 'Series 23 Stalling'. Post 12 of this tread contains a discussion on the potential of a fuel line restriction imposed by an electric fuel pump. If you have a vane type pump without a bypass loop then unpredictable stalling and rough running is a distinct possibility.

dp

Posted on: 2019/3/17 22:29
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Re: '55 fuel line issues
#4
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onyerleft
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Thanks HH56, good advice.

Yesterday I was driving the car after Gumout seemed to have fixed the problem, only to have it stall on the road. Though the tow truck driver was able to start the car, he said from towing stalled vintage cars their tanks were usually less than 1/2 full when he arrived - essentially confirming your point about pinhole leaks.

There aren't any drawings of the tank in the parts list, but it's described in the service manual as "two-piece welded construction" which I assume means there's no way to get into it without having to re-weld it?

Whoever installed the electronic fuel pump neglected to add a fuel filter, and the only cap I can find that fit was an unvented one. Any suggestions for non-OEM

Cap?
Fuel filter?
Durable electronic fuel pump (if I need to replace the one it has)?

Thanks

Posted on: 2019/3/19 14:07
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Re: '55 fuel line issues
#5
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HH56
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I don't find a listing in the online vintage Stant catalog for the 51-56 fuel caps but Max, Kanter or Dwight Heinmuller should have them although probably at a higher price than they will be at a parts store. Maybe someone else has a number. I believe the 51-6 needs a different cap than the earlier tanks and those we have a cross number for but I would not guarantee they would fit 51 on. The cheapest solution since you already have a new cap is just drill a small 1/16 or smaller diameter hole in a protected spot in the cap to allow air to enter the tank.

Depending on where you put the filter you can get any of the aftermarket types. If it is placed in the line before the pump and under the car I would get a large one that can go in a 5/16 line and place it where it is protected but still easy to access and change. Some of the electric pumps come with a small filter but if the tank is dirty or has a lot of rust particles I would get a larger one and place it before the electric.

As to the electric pump, several have had good results with the Airtex E8012S at 5-9 psi if you place it near the tank and have it push thru the mechanical pump and any original ceramic filter. For those who plan on eliminating the mechanical pump entirely, the E8016S at 2.5-4.5 psi will work better with the lower pressure and can feed directly into the carb. Both are 12v solenoid type so enables the mechanical pump to pull fuel thru them when off, have individual wires and can work on either polarity (as long as they are hooked up accordingly) and can be found in parts stores or fairly inexpensively at Amazon.

As to the fuel tank, they are a welded assy with a seam centered on the width so not something you can work on. There were repros made a few years ago but I was just told today by another owner who needed one that according to Kanter people they are sold out and no plans to repro any more. He was able to find one that was sold by another vendor so they might still be available at some of the other companies that also carried them when they were first repro'd. If no luck there then about the only place that would guarantee a repair and an almost new looking tank when finished is someone who is a Renu dealer or franchise that does their process. You can search for someone who might be close to you by going to the Renu website and search for dealers.https://www.gastankrenu.com Price on the Renu process is equal to or maybe more than the repro tanks were.

Here are specs on the Airtex electric pumps and the full view of the photo Ross took of a cut apart tank.

Attach file:



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jpg  (176.15 KB)
209_5c915dab8a093.jpg 1408X1056 px

Posted on: 2019/3/19 16:14
Howard
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Re: '55 fuel line issues
#6
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bobp
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The gas cap I purchased on e bay was listed as 53-57 Chevy, 49-58 Caddy, 50-56 Packard. If I remember it was an NOS Atlas brand. It was only $7.50

Posted on: 2019/3/19 18:26
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Re: '55 fuel line issues
#7
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Marty or Marston
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Next time it stalls, I would suggest that you turn off the pump. Remove the air cleaner and while looking down the carb work the throttle several times to ensure that it is indeed out of gas.

An easy quick check ti verify that it is a gas issue and not some other ghost that has appeared in a 63 year old car.

Posted on: 2019/3/19 19:35
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Re: '55 fuel line issues
#8
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Clippered
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On my previous Packard, a 53 Clipper, I had similar issues. When I bought the car, the tank was full of rust and any fuel filter I installed plugged up within a few miles of operation. Kanter no longer offers replacement tanks, so I went the Renu route. Found a dealer and visited their facility. Turns out this place also rebuilds large truck radiators, so I figured they had the tools & expertise to work on gas tanks. The cost was about equal to a new tank. They sandblasted it in & out and applied their sealer in & out. (Lifetime warranty) I had to install a new guage sender unit since the old one was shot. I had to solder a ground wire to the sender unit since the tank no longer had a good ground when covered in sealant. No more stalling problems & gas guage worked fine! I would recommend Gas Tank Renu.

Posted on: 2019/3/19 19:37
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Re: '55 fuel line issues
#9
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56Clippers
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I purchased a reproduction gas tank from Auto City Classics, https://autocityclassic.com/, last April. At the time they said they had a lot of them in stock. It did have the problem that the filler pipe opening wasn't in the correct position behind the filler door. It only required a little additional bend be added to the first two bends as measured from the tank. I have had no problems with the tank.

Posted on: 2019/3/20 14:05
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Re: '55 fuel line issues
#10
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56Clippers
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On the gas tank, as of 4:30 pm EDT today, Auto City Classics DOES have them in stock. They recommend calling them to order, (800) 828-2212. Current price $349. I had to add a small bend to the filler pipe as it was too low behind the filler door.

Posted on: 2019/6/24 16:04
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